True Bernie - or just don't ride in those open M45+ races. Not that I have any business there anyway (see sig line).

But that's just the impression that this thread has given me, but I'm a new guy just a year into racing so what do I know?

GFMeilahn gets it! He wins! There is the most complete, workable suggestion I've ever seen in this thread. Now, everybody knows what to do, so next time, we can all step up and do what we need to do in order to feel safer in the pack, right?

If anyone has issue with the riding conduct of another rider, they may file a protest with the Chief Referee either before or after the race, as stated in the rulebook. You'd have to file a protest and pay a fee to file it (I think it's $10.00)
Rule 105.b No ridermay use foul or abusive language or conduct during a race event. Rule 105.c No licensee may assault or do battery to anyone connected with an event
Rule 106. No rider shall make an abrupt motion so as to interfere with the forward progress of another rider. Disqualification and or suspension could result.
Rule 107 could prevent the rider from even starting.
Rule 108. Pushing or pulling among riders is prohibited...no rider may hold back or pull an opponent by any part of his or her clothing, equipment ,or body.
If enough protests are filed they must be addressed and that eider may lose a placing or not allowed to race.

Gentlemen, you know how I love piss 'n vinegar, but lets' get back to basics.

Having digested all of the chords in this symphony of discord, I think we can distill its essence as follows:

1. The rider at issue (whose name I felt was unecessary to divulge since amazingly everybody knew precisely about whom I spoke when I described his misdeeds) did push me during the race, and commonly does that and similar physically offensive things to others.

2. He doesn't push, curb, berate or belittle everybody - just a lot of people.

3. Some people don't mind it; some people are livid about it.

4. Talking about perceived misdeeds after the race is a good thing, but only if the other person gives a sh-t.

5. Fewer crashes would be caused if people, especially those with teammates, self-sacrificed to line-up finishing laps.

Well, that was a fruitful two weeks of didactics. Shall we next arbitrate that pesky business in the Gulf?

I have, since the hour after I posted the first note on this blog (admittedly designed to provoke ascerbic discussion), been conscious of the pronounced silence of Casey and anyone with an emblem attached to their username.
Can it be that they are ... perplexed? ... unimpressed? ... apathetic? ...
Or is it that they, like the Supreme Court, only decide an issue that is "at issue", i.e. actually brought before them in the form of a genuine controversy between parties.
Or perhaps they are just watching, listening, and waiting to see how the children resolve their sandbox conflicts.

Only the Shadow knows.

I will say one thing that I believe WITH CERTAINTY to be true:
The racer of whom we have spoken does not read this Forum, doesn't care about what's said in this Forum, and couldn't give less of a crap what the people who read this Forum say or think about him.

As the late great Kurt Vonnegut would say: "Poo-too-weet."

Bernie-

My advice wasn't directed at you specifically. I think, that the end result of this thread might be that more people will be encouraged to take a direct approach, and perhaps the number of complaints made directly to an offending rider will have some effect. In the case of Mark, I laugh at him sometimes because he's so busy trying not to do any work that he often misses out on the breaks, and sometimes complaining about it, while Joe rides up the road. However, if you and Jess decide to heckle me throughout a race I might spill my bottle of Gatorade in your direction. :-)

And... Just because you haven't seen me stringing out the pack or splitting it at the end of a race doesn't mean I haven't. Rancho Cordova and Modesto last year, and Davis before that. Plan C for Clo-terium. Many times on the track.

Great.
Don't name people.
Does anybody on this thread have a suggestion for disciplining riders who are out of line? Now class, let's all go back to page one and read the opening thread. And remember, plenty of riders have already had "one on ones" with said offending rider.

Guys, if you are going to name names and such, at least have the decency to take it off line.

I don't know Mark from Adam. But I think that he has a wife and kid who would be a bit troubled to read opinions of him like this in a public forum.

Warren, did you read my first posting on this thread?! Your suggestion implies that I only complain about it in this forum or in the parking lot after.
Warren you've got to be kidding me, you're joking, right?
Did you read the other postings on the first page of this thread? What you suggest is going up to the rider and letting him know what I don't like. I already stated that is exactly what I've done or will do if the situation arises. Why would you think I'd have a problem with that, ever?
So in the spirit of this thread-
What would you suggest?
He has already had several riders complain to him directly.
He has had his own crap pulled on him, he doesn't like it so much, and yells and cusses when it happens. Funny isn't it?
You and Larry have made it quite clear how talented Mark is, and how he has never exhibited that behaviour towards you. So now do you just ignore others problems with him because it doesn't directly affect you?
So now it's your turn. I've made suggestions and so has everyone else on this thread. What are your suggestions Warren? Besides "go talk to him."
That hasn't worked for any of us.
And with my humble opinion, I don't agree with what others have stated in this thread, that it is as simple or as easy as just running the speed up at the end (but it sure would be nice, wouldn't it?). If that was the case, you and Larry could just do that every single race and we'd all be safe, but I'd imagine you two might like a shot at first place also, which is why it very rarely happens that anybody goes to the front just to sacrifice themselves to keep everyone else safe. When was the last time YOU did that?

Bernie, I don't doubt what you or Jess or anyone else have said about your experiences, except that I think Mark does respect at least some of us. Maybe our sleeve stripes are the reason, but as you suggest, it shouldn't be that way.

Larry and I both suggested that you let the offending rider know directly, calmly, clearly, and firmly what you don't like, as opposed to only complaining about it here or in the parking lot with your friends.

I think what Larry and Warren may be missing is that Mark usually displays this behavior when Larry (or whoever) is off the front, and that makes him feel a lot of frustration because now someone has taken his ball and he can't play anymore. I speak from personal experience. Last year he attempted to run me into a curb because I wouldn't pull him up to Steve Gregorious and Bubba (like I could) who had broken away and gone out of sight long before. As you both correctly pointed out, you can just give it (the offending behaviour) back in a variety of ways, and at the higher levels some of us are used to riding at, it ends up being no big deal. BUT IMAGINE THIS......... You just started racing, and a guy with national championship stripes, who is fit, and fast, starts to verbally berate you then shoves you (or whatever) then tries to curb you. My point is you don't have to be an a-hole! It can work both ways; if he doesn't like somebody's riding, he COULD just RESPECTFULLY tell them that, instead of endangering ALL of us by screwing with riders (touching, curbing) that he has absolutely about, or no idea what they're skill level is at. I think THAT is what you two, of course, will never experience from him, so it is hard for you to relate to our (the guys he chooses to screw with) situations with him. Quite respectfully I'll say to both of you that I don't care if he rides well with you, I'm certain all of us in this post aren't liars because we have it out for Mark, we have had bad experiences with him many times over and they are continuing. That makes him a threat to all our safety no matter what you've witnessed with him over the years. My suggestion; To earn respect you have to give it, and he gives no respect to anyone. Polar opposite of Larry Nolan, who even though he spanks almost everybody every week all year long (you could dislike him for that alone) is one of the, if not the most respected rider we ride with. He lets his legs do the talking, and if something needs to be said, he will say it to you respectfully and not at the top of his lungs, in front of the whole pack. Can you say that about Caldwell?

To me, there is an unwritten rule that you don't go outside the norm of the race you're in for stuff like this, and you don't take your hands off the bars to advance your position. A local 45's race is not the place for pushing, pulling, etc., to advance your position. Larry and Kevin know a guy who might jam his brake lever into your butt if you were in his way, but I always smiled at that because I knew there was no risk for a reasonably calm jammee, but some for the jammer, and this guy could handle it fine.

I've done around 40-50 races with Mark and I've never seen him push anyone. Maybe he does when someone is squeezing his front wheel, or other times, but I've never seen it. Or maybe I've forgotten about it because it didn't matter.

The last time somebody shoved me I responded by "tapping" his bars with my knee as we went around the next turn. He said not a word (cat 1, used to things) and that was that. I guess the problems arise when people can't handle a shove or something that some of us would see as harmless, but still rather poor sportsmanship.

Sure, Mark whines a lot to try to get the race his way, but that's just noise and doesn't need to change anybody's race outcome. Just smile back at him, like you know something he doesn't. Mention the weather, or ask him what he thinks about the Giants new pitcher.

A couple years ago Mark was enjoying the draft on my wheel near the front at Davis and I intentionally let a gap to a buddy open up to spring my buddy off the front. Mark yelled at me when he finally realized what was going on, something about that being a chickens**t move, and I replied that he ought to know. End of story, and no harm done.

A calm, firm reply is usually the best first response, and second response.

I have followed this thread with interest... and felt compelled to write on Mark's behalf. He and I have not spoken since before Wente started so this is just me.

I wanted to add that I have raced with Mark more times in the past twenty years than most of you have raced. In fact, he and I have spent numerous miles within feet of eachother ;-) and I have not witnessed any of this pushing that has been described. I love that Mark is a super-competitive rider because that helps us all raise our game, and it would seem logical that he could intimidate riders, but I just have not witnessed what he is been accused of.

On a related note, I have a few teammates that are very comfortable riding under your armpit and in your "space" so I have had my share of riders coming up to me saying "you need to talk to ...." to which I always reply "no, you need to talk to ....". As has been mentioned, if the rider never hears about it then they don't know of a problem pattern.

When in doubt, lead it out. Larry Nolan, AMD-Discovery Channel

Kevin

I totally understand what was going on.

From our point of view we had Brian up there with Larry and Mike, that for us was much better than had he been close to Mick, Rob and Yourself also.

Thats why I didn't ride with you to cross the gap. He would not have been glad to see you at that point in time. :wink:
AMD had the field stacked and we needed Brian to get any and all the time he could.

We wanted him as far ahead of all the AMD time trail experts as posible.

What all the other teams were thinking I'm not sure but it worked for us, well until the road race that is.

Still had AMD not kept it going the break would have finished 40 seconds up instead of 17 as well as being more dangerous.

MS

MarkSasser wrote:We nearly had the same situation Saturday at the MSR crit.

With 1 to go and the break up the road the pack started to slow and bunch up. I for one thought of this post and cringed.

With that Kevin and his AMD crew took the lead and picked up the pace giving everyone a safe trip to the finish.

Our intention was to close the gap to the break away to the bare minimum. We wanted either Dean or Larry to win the stage, but we didn't want to give Brian Bosch a "head start" going into the TT. We had two or three guys in the field who could possibly have won the stage. (Assuming that they stayed on course...) So we worked to bring the group close up until about 1.5 to go and figured/hoped that the group would be fired up enough to bring us very close to, but not quite catching the break on the line. But the group stalled so we went to the front again to minimize the gap.

I think that sometimes people just don't think. If it was just a crit I might understand, but everybody in the pack was giving Brian, Larry and Mike Hernandez a head start for the TT. Even if you didn't care about winning do you really want to give away time just so you can place 10th in the crit?

Kevin Metcalfe

We nearly had the same situation Saturday at the MSR crit.

With 1 to go and the break up the road the pack started to slow and bunch up. I for one thought of this post and cringed.

With that Kevin and his AMD crew took the lead and picked up the pace giving everyone a safe trip to the finish.

Just think, when in doubt line it out. Never hurts anything but your result and sometimes you get the best result by doing just that.

As for me I'd rather see posts about great racing than those pointing fingers. Just makes the finger pointer suspect from this racers view.

This weekend at the MSR was great racing. Lets hear some talk about that.

MS

Once again, this thread was not about seeking blame for the Wente crash, nor to seek to eliminate crashes or bunch sprints.

The issue was regarding a particular uber - previously named by another - who consistently lays hands on riders and pushes them, or who otherwise races retributively and dangerously, with experience enough to know better.

It doesn't matter whether he caused the crash at Wente. Everyone who races the 45's knows that this guy is (and apparently has always been) an absolute horse's arse -- which is tolerable UNTIL HE LAYS THE HANDS ON.

The question for this thread was - and still is - whether the NCNCA/USCF will DO anything about it when an Attack Squirrel happens to be an Uber with striped sleeves. If so, then we, the peloton, should make a point of reporting it, which I have to believe isn't happening because he continues to race and to push. If such offenses have been reported, then shame on the NCNCA/USCF!! We, the peloton, should now be privileged to stop it ourselves.

Jesster "IfIevergetmyupgradeI'llracethePro/1/2'stoo" Raphael

Mad Axeman wrote:Perhaps it would be a good idea if the more experienced riders didn't ride in a way that was over other's skill level.

I am not talking about speed, endurance, or tactics. I am talking about the things some riders might be used to from their Pro days that Pros can handle.

Masters is a mixed bunch, you may just need to tone it down and let the pedals do the talkin.

I don't get it... Are you saying more experienced riders are causing crashes like the one at Wente-- because of their aggro sprinting tactics?

A pack that slows down in "preparation" for a bunch sprint is always dangerous, and it's an absolute sure sign that there is little or no teamwork taking place. I can't see a resulting crash having much to do with an experienced rider fighting for position. It has everything to do with the sprint finish being contested by 43 on-the-rivet guys, most of whom don't have a sprint worth writing home about.

When the larger clubs line it up, take control of the pace and make sure to deliver "their guy" to the line with good position, the race stays fast, the sprint has plenty of room, and everybody wins. (Well, not really, but less people go to the ER.)

I'd say having more experience in the pack would encourage this kind of riding, and it'd probably result in safer races. Take away those experienced riders, and you'd still have 40 guys all swinging their bikes without enough pavement to go around.

The dude I am referring to had suggested to Thurlow that he race in the P 1/2 instead of the Masters.

Thurlow won Everest Challenge in the P 1/2, he rode away from the field and made them wish they hadn't been there that weekend.

Thurlow Rogers still competes with the P1/2, even in stage races, and he's 45-49. He still podiums with them. As a former Olympian medalist, he can make the masters wish they'd stayed home.

Glad I longer race against him,

George Meilahn-- a 1984 Olympic wannabe.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if the more experienced riders didn't ride in a way that was over other's skill level.

I am not talking about speed, endurance, or tactics. I am talking about the things some riders might be used to from their Pro days that Pros can handle.

Masters is a mixed bunch, you may just need to tone it down and let the pedals do the talkin.

Savvy?

-R
P.S. I met a dude this weekend that is 50 and races in the Pros on a Pro team. He doesn't do Masters races, he has the ability to mix it up with the pros so that's what he does. Kind of like John Hunt. You have to respect that big time!

Great discussion, guys. And great photos, Mikey!! I'd sure like to see the larger version too.

That race was certain to be electric from the start, having seen all the top names and teams registered, and anticipating all week the showdown that was to come.

In a way, I guess this race was run with an NBA Playoff mentality: "No free ones." (At least it would seem that a couple of riders approached it that way.) The variety of attacks, responses (and not) made for great post-race commentary.

And isn't it beautiful how this discussion evolved from "peloton as posse" to my favorite "divide the 45's" argument? I feel like I doubled down and drew the ace!!

Jesster

Ernie is doing well. Broke a bone in his hand and maybe his shoulder, don't remember all his details and there were many. He went out and did 40 on Wednesday, and felt all right. Said it just made him stronger.
I agree with all of the above. That race was sure sumthin' wasn't it?

I'll second Kevin, or third him I guess, since Mr. Hernandez already did. There are guys out there wearing the same jerseys but it looks like it's every man for himself.

And thanks for the link to the photo of it. Is there a larger version? I want to see if I can pick my position in the pile.

I only realized that Ernie was in the crash when I looked at results and didn't see his name. Guess I was too busy getting myself to a hospital at the time. You mentioned head trauma...anybody know how he's doing?

yeah, i saw the whole thing developing.

didn't want to take any pictures of it ... but, had to snap one just out of reflex.

Kevin pretty much nails it ~ the speed wasn't high enough and too many pushed for position in the final 350m. It's the same scenario seen many times over in many different categories.
- - -

As for calling out the Caldwell ... i dunno. I've listened to Mark yammer on about hating crashes and loving being healthy with his family to know that he DON'T want anyone crashin'. But, he sure'nuff is a firecracker with that mouth o' his. sometimes you just wanna tune his ass out.

I think making a point of bike racing being all about the shits n' giggles is a good idea and worthwhile. i think callin' out folks for acting the fool is a good idea, too ... but, walkin' up to their face and doing it, laughing-like, is probably more productive. it's just bike racing, after all.

But, like i said in the race description on the blog ~ that Wente 45's crit was damn, damn fast. It was pure spectacle for us watchers. And, in that final few seconds of the race ... you fellas were pretty much bleeding out of your eyeballs. That's when mistakes happen. and that's what this crash was ... a mistake.

it's just a shame some guys got hurt because of it. And Caldwell was definitely one of them. That set of blood stains seeping out of his legs was intense. And Ernie of VOS? holey shyte ... that dude was head trauma extraordinaire.

pretty damn good race, though. let's just try and learn the lessons and repeat less often.

good on 'ya,
m

Go to the front in the final laps and push the pace...

Okay, that's a trite answer. But the problem with the Wente 45+ race is that it was too slow coming out of the last corner and EVERYBODY seems to think that they are a field sprinter. I can say it was too slow because I was the one on the front and I was tired and going too slow. But nobody came around me until after the crash.

Check out the second picture down on Mike Hernandez' blog.

http://vanderhoot.blogspot.com/2007/04/randoms-al-dente.html

Just as the crash is starting we are gutter to gutter and that is a WIDE ROAD. If somebody would have been up front putting the hammer down and not flailing their tired legs like I was this crash might not have happened.

I've got news for you. Most of us aren't fast enough to beat Larry, Steve G and Big Steve G in a sprint. Some of us are lucky enough to have team mates who can sprint. There were several teams there that had some numbers and yet none of them worked to keep the speed up or help their team mates as far as I could tell.

So if you want to make the races safer, go to the front and keep to speed up to help keep your sprinter in position, or do a lead out, or just attack and counter attack during those last few laps.

My two cents.

Thanks.

I was in the Wente crit. and did not witness any of the for mentioned "bad behavior" that Mark is being accused of. If it was happening why wasn't anyone complaining at the time? Some experienced racers are more aggressive than others, but this does not necessarily equate to dangerous. A little pushing and shoving is all part of criterium racing.

The fact is that the 45+ category has seen an influx of very experienced and competent riders over the past two years, making the races a lot faster and naturally more aggressive. I think the main problem is many of the newer (i.e. cat 4/5 racers), do not have the bike handling skills or the experience needed to handle these situations. They are using so much concentration and energy just to "hang in" that there is little left to deal with anything else.

I agree something needs to be done based on the number of crashes so far this year, but singling out one or two riders is NOT the solution. Although splitting the categories has been discussed ad nauseam, it may be the only solution. I don't think it makes sense to have a separate 45+ 4/5 category since they can race with the 35+ 4/5's. At the very least we should limit the 45+ category to 1/2/3/4.

As the rider who switched from Spine last year to VOS, I want to say that it wasn't anything against the guys on Spine personally, all of whom were very decent and helpful to me (MC included). I'm pretty sure all the injuries and other turmoil on the team contributed to a lack of cohesiveness at times.

Hey, It's only Bernie's constant physical intimidation that keeps VOS in line.

I'm surprised that Casey hasn't jumped into this discussion yet.

Actually, BS, the purpose of the thread was to find out what could be done to correct the hazard of a killer squirrel -- in particular, whether the NCNCA/USCF would be willing to step up for effective pest control (to mix my metaphors), or whether it's simply to be left to the peloton.

A couple of years ago at Winters RR I was nearly pushed off the road by a Cat.4 who was another well-known killer squirrel. When I beefed about it to the officials, I got a cold shoulder.
In the case of the Wente uber-squirrel of whom I spoke, since his rep is SO pervasive in the peloton, and yet he continues in his misdeeds, the original question was: What may we, and what shall we, the community at risk, do about it?

Jesster "A Man Called Horse" Raphael

I think (thought) the purpose of this thread is to point out riders who were P U R P O S E L Y riding dangerous. That is why I named Caldwell. I know who you are talking about on VOS, but before you mention someone's name in a thread (as I've stated before) you should at least try to go talk to the guy. I myself have made some imperfect moves in races (CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!) and when somebody comes up afterwards and constructively tells me what I did, what they get back is a thanks with an apology, and a promise to try to improve said behavior so it won't happen again.
In the case of Caldwell, I think he is just a bully, plain and simple, you hear things like this about him quite often, and I have personally been the subject of his physical attempt at bike race controlling before. Our Team was lucky enough to take on a member form Caldwell's team who was tired of tactics and a lack of teamwork from that team.
The guy who caused the crash at Wente apoligized after, and although it wasn't a smart move, it was an ACCIDENT! And that is why, by me at least, he and his club will remain nameless. It most definitely was not on purpose as far as I could tell, and I was three feet away from the start and was very lucky to have avoided the whole mess. I missed the main crash because I was being swept to the left by a rider with a blowout on my right. He didn't go down, and neither did I, and I wish everybody else had been so fortunate.

Okay, that's it!
I've totally lost track for whom I need to watch out. It's gotten so that you can't distinguish the killer squirrels without a program.

From now on I'm just going to attack alone. Lone Eagle, baby.

And if anyone tries to follow me, I'm going to harness primal fear as my motivating power to stay away.

So goodbye, lemmings!! If I'm smiling at you as the peloton blows by me once I've gassed out, consider that my gift in lieu of flowers at your hospital bedside.

Jesster "No Longer A Herd Animal" Raphael

I'm not sure if mark caused the crash, only he can be sure of that. What I do know is since we are naming names there's a certain rider from Vos with a name starting with E that scares the crap out of me at every race. During this crit I witnessed several sideways movements with no regard to the riders around him and he does this all the time. He obviously has no periphial vision! And guess what he was in this crash too!

Anyway this crash has caused me to miss work so far this week. I have a couple of cracked ribs. Some bruising on two others and on my back causing me some extemely painful nights let alone how long I'll be off the bike.

Jesse,
I could be wrong about him wanting to bridge. However, he sure was putting out at the front and trying to get to that group. After, he was very agressive with his mouth to other racers. I was almost laughing at that part, but definately not the shoving part earlier in the race.
I am also glad that his name actually came out.

O.k, there, I did it. I named the guy.
Now, what you have to do is tell Casey next time it happens, or just go up and talk to Mark after. I'm not making excuses for him or anyone else that does crap like that, but you should never tolerate purposely dangerous riding from anyone at any time. I'm not going to say "we've all got jobs, blah, blah" but I think we'll all agree we'd like to race the next weekend and in the years to come. We'll all benefit from tolerating each other without crashing each other out. If something needs to be said, say it to him. I had a similar run in with Joe Saunders last year, and when I talked with him about it afterwards, he agreed it wasn't the smartest tactic, and if you know Joe, you know he yells a lot. Yelling that is not abusive with no cussing is acceptable (my opinion, and maybe the actual rules too) but you shove me and endanger me and others, well, let's just say that isn't cool or very wise.
The last corner crash (the first one) was caused by somebody who admitted it afterwards, not Caldwell. Five of our guys went down in that, and it sure wasn't the smartest move I've ever seen, but it wasn't intentional. See you guys this weekend, and don't touch me or I'll kill you.(kidding)

I agree there is a difference between aggressive racing, which I have no problem with, and dangferous aggression.

As for the original point of this thread, I agree with Jess that some action needs to be taken if this particular rider, who apparently was already creating havoc, did cause the crash on Sunday. I was on a particular well-known rider's wheel, and two of his teamates went down also, but I don't think he caused the crash, it was two guys in front of him who lost it, so I'm not sure who we're talking about.

cyclartist wrote:I know crashing is always a possibility, but toning down the aggression reduces the probability. Guys, we're doing this for fun and then we want to be able to go to work on Monday and race again the next weekend, so let's get a clue and not make every race the World Championships.

Michael, hope you heal up quickly and well.

While we all make mistakes at times, there's a difference between racing aggressively and just not giving a carp about crashing other people. During the 45+ road race the double line rule seemed to have been thrown out the window everywhere and at one point I had a guy run me over the line into oncoming traffic (that had been called out) when he had the entire right side of the road clear. He just didn't want to be in the wind. Kinda silly.

And Alan, I have to ask:
Why would he bridge to the break?!?
We had ~ 10 riders off the front, including one of his teammates!!
Is this guy's ego so huge that he'll chase his own teammate down because he has to be the guy contesting the win??

(Needless to say, I was bummed. We had all the teams represented.)

Anyway, back to the point:

Quote:I was in the big crash in the 45s at Wente with 200 meters or so to go when a couple of guys got tangled up several riders in front of me. I'm writing this from my couch where I'm nursing my fractured pelvis.

Michael, I just read your post, and my blood is boiling for you. I know how the crash happened from the description of the racer whose rear wheel he touched trying to push by. What happened to you was unecessary and was absolutely unconscionable.

Why do we allow him to continue to be that way? I have to believe that if enough voices are heard, the NCNCA/USCF will have to respond.

It may be that his teammate, a man of impeccible honor and credentials, another one whom the squirrel crashed out and injured at Wente Crit with his over-aggressive and selfish tactics, would be the most qualified and effective critic to intervene on behalf of the peloton....
Quote:

I got pushed a couple of times, too, but I couldn't tell you who did it, I tend to ignore those things unless it causes me to lose my line, which is what sounds like happened to you, Jess. Then I would be p****d off. I started racing again this year after a ten year layoff and I'm amazed at how agressive the older age category in question (45+ to be exact) has become. There is much more unsafe fighting for wheels and position than I remember. And the bike handling skills and the sense of where you are in the pack seems to not be there with some riders. In the six 45/55+ crits I've done this year there have been four with crashes.

I was in the big crash in the 45s at Wente with 200 meters or so to go when a couple of guys got tangled up several riders in front of me. I'm writing this from my couch where I'm nursing my fractured pelvis. I know crashing is always a possibility, but toning down the aggression reduces the probability. Guys, we're doing this for fun and then we want to be able to go to work on Monday and race again the next weekend, so let's get a clue and not make every race the World Championships. As for the offending rider in your case, Jess, I think he ought to be singled out by name so everyone knows who he is. It used to be riders who did that stuff got an earful from half the pack when they did something dangerous. If enough people complain about it to him it then said rider might change his ways.

Michael Welch

Same said racer also berrated members of the peleton for not helping to bridge a gap that was going to come back anyway. He physically shoves (I am witness to it) and also whines!(I wish I wasn't a witness). What a cry baby! Especially coming from a National caliber racer!

What on earth possesses adults with professions, college degrees and families to act like this? Since when did your crit entry also become a license to behave like a school yard bully.