Eric -

I think you do a great job at Pedali Alpina, and I admire your devotion to the region and your willingness to volunteer.

I don't share Ron's skepticism of the devotion or effectiveness of volunteers. Not at all. But I also don't share your or Tad's beneficence.

My family will be quite satisfied to be compensated for the Papa/Honey time lost to my work as a Board member. :roll:

One more thing...

The first time I was an NCNCA officer, not only was there no compensation but I covered my expenses. Every member of the Board covered their own expenses.

== Eric

To clarify the question about Pedali Alpini, Pedali is one of the oldest and most successful racing clubs in the United States. When I was recruited to race for Pedali, I was not expecting to be one of the last in a great tradition including many, many champions, Olympians, Pan Am team members, etc. The main reason I have kept the club alive is for all those champions who went before me -- I'm also active in two other clubs.

Now, the last time I actually bothered to check, there was only one licensed rider who I believe is active. I'm still licensed as a rider, but no longer compete.

And, for anybody who questions the quality of my volunteerism, I can provide references. One of our City Council members once asked me "How do you get so much done?" and that was when I had a job. Another City Council member just recruited me into her Assembly campaign. I've received local awards for what I have accomplished -- all unpaid.

Just because I choose to volunteer for things doesn't mean that I don't do a good job -- and the same goes for many, many more!

Everyone who has posted has done an eloquent job of expressing their views and brought up many excellent points.

There are people in this world who do nothing but take and then there are others who interact and put back more than they could ever consume. While the saying that "nothing is free" is still universally and infinitely true there are still people who do things for the love of it. It doesn't mean that they sometimes have momentary lapses of regrets but their initial intentions to do good for others are there. Ocasionally there are the blowhards who only want to present and put forward their own personal agendas but want to believe those individuals are far and in between.

I have done my share of volunteering with my club/team that is on a much smaller scale than the NCNCA. The eagerness to serve is very high when the project is in it's initial stages but grows increasingly stressful as the endeavor progresses. Opinions here, disagreements there and all of a sudden you have conflict. You want to please all but never can. The disenfranchised scream the loudest and attract the most attention while the masses just sigh in wonder. I believe I understand the role of the board members and I applaude them on their committment to service.

Like other people have mentioned I believe that it is up to the individual to decide to accept or refuse whatever compensation our elected board has decided to offer. The stipend represents and acknowledges that the work is often time consuming and unacknowledged.

My 2 cents.

I don't think it is appropriate to discuss a paid position for the workload while still in the context of questioning the VPs about their position on things. It's a topic to be dealt with later as their are inherent challenges with any decision.

Let's get through the election first.

One of my points, which was sort of missed, is that making a position that has a substantial workload completely volunteer is setting an unsustainable expectation.
While Eric may be able and willing to work for free, there are few within our district that would be able or willing to do the same.
This sets the district up for limitations in the future.

Do you want good choices for candidates in the future, or do you want to tolerate whom ever will work for free? You may very likely end up with no choices at all.
We all forget so easily that Casey ran unopposed for so many years. Why? Because nobody else wanted the job.

Free very seldom ends up as free. While there may not be a direct monetary gain, every person has a motivation for what they do.
Personally, I always prefer the exchange of energy be monetary, that way I know how much I am paying, and expectations are up front with no hidden agendas or angles being played.
Not a big fan if invisible strings.

For those that do not think the job can become full time in the blink of an eye, just ask Lorri how much time she is on NCNCA business.

One only needs to try and register for a 35+ Cat 4 race to realize how large our demographics are.
The larger the constituency, the greater the work load.
Have no illusions.

Ron

Perhaps the best solution is to pay a staff person to do the things that would otherwise require more than 10-20 hours a month for any single board member.

clm,

My comment had to do specifically with the VP position. Given the choice between a candidate who would willingly take the compensation offered and was competent versus someone willing to accept the position for free but was less competent I would prefer the paid candidate. Nowhere did I refer to other volunteers.

I think it a mistake to consider Eric's offer of free work as superior, necessarily. That was my point.

Cathy, I respect the volunteer work you do but remember that context matters. We are talking about VP candidates here. Perhaps you could ask for clarification before you go to guns next time.

>>It's very noble to say one will do what could be a 30 to 40 hour a week job for free, <<

30-40 hours per week? Somehow I think that's overstating the time requirement a lot. If not, I'd like to see how that time bills out (as someone who bills their time in 10 minute increments).

>>I would rather see the more qualified and capable paid than get mediocre work for free. Often you get what you pay for . . .<<

A very nice slam against pretty much every club with volunteer officers or other positions and race volunteers. Nice.

clm

Pedali-Alpini wrote:"Nobody does anything for free for very long."

Track record:
President, Pedali Alpini since 1988 -- free.
Member, Salinas Traffic and Transportation Commission since 1998 -- free.
Various other things too numerous to mention...

And since I no longer have a job -- even at a "government salary" -- that just makes it easier for me to do Vice President for free.

== Eric

Eric,

How many members are there in Pedalini Alpini that currently race?

Tad,

I would rather see the more qualified and capable paid than get mediocre work for free. Often you get what you pay for . . .

Thanks for the replies everyone. In a way it wasn't a fair question because NCNCA is set up a weird way and the VP role (like the whole exec board) is a mix of director like things and work. But it is a nonprofit, not a race-promotion company.

In every nonprofit I can think of the board isn't paid, other than nominal expenses for attending meetings. I think NCNCA needs to work that way too even if it requires amending the constitution to change its basic structure (which might not be necessary). USA Cycling's board isn't paid, according to their reports. Somehow hundreds of thousands of nonprofits are able to attract directors without paying them so it shouldn't be a problem for NCNCA either.

But of course it would be very hard to find somebody to process race permits or deal with equipment etc out of the goodness of their heart so there's paid staff at USAC and there needs to be paid staff at NCNCA. The VP does upgrades which is a tedious and time consuming task and sounds like a job. Not a 30 to 40 hour a week job though - if it's anything close to that, we need to look at it.

The VP also oversees grants which is more like posting on these forums about what is best for the sport, and we know how many paid bloggers there are. The reward is that you convince someone and your point of view gets done, and if you're right, the sport gets better.

It wasn't a budget question though, more of an attitude one. I think all three candidates have a good spirit of volunteerism, but Eric's comes across the strongest and Ron's the weakest - some of those comments sound strange to anyone who has volunteered a lot and seen people step it up when needed. We need more of the Avery Brundage spirit in cycling IMO...while drawing some clearer lines between job roles and board roles at NCNCA, and making sure the jobs are paid fairly, especially for those who rely on cycling for income.

-Tad

Not all expenses in life are monetary...

some are far more costly.

Ron

"Nobody does anything for free for very long."

Track record:
President, Pedali Alpini since 1988 -- free.
Member, Salinas Traffic and Transportation Commission since 1998 -- free.
Various other things too numerous to mention...

And since I no longer have a job -- even at a "government salary" -- that just makes it easier for me to do Vice President for free.

== Eric

Having volunteered countless hours for the past several years founding and operating East Bay Cyclists (InfoVista CyclingTeam), and promoting the race 4 out of the 6 years, I have this as experience.

A true volunteer's dedication is only going to go so far. When the times get tough and more time is needed, everyone, and I mean everyone, will start to evaluate whether the energy they are putting in is worth it.
In my experience, a true volunteer's level of urgency to handle important tasks deteriorates when other life issue start to get in the way. If one is doing it for free, they are less accountable.

It's very noble to say one will do what could be a 30 to 40 hour a week job for free, but how long will nobility last before fundamental human nature takes over?

Nobody does anything for free for very long. Their is always an expectation of some sort. Even if it is not monetary, there is ALWAYS and exchange of energy some how.
Better for it to be up front with expectations listed and known, than assumed.

How often have we seen the following dialogue take place?
Person 1: I thought you were going to handle this issue last week?
Person 2: I was, but I got busy with some other things.
Person 1: But this was important and everyone is waiting for this issue to get solved.
Person 2 (now feeling spiteful and in self justification): Hey, I am volunteer, I don't accept any payment for what I do. You have no right to pressure me.

One other issue:
Do we want to continue to have choices for future elections, or do we just want to accept whomever will volunteer, good or bad?

Whomever wins, compensate the position so that we can continue to attract candidates for future elections. What they do with the money is their business.

Ron Castia

ZebraMan wrote:

Look, I work a full time job for a government salary. I teach spin part time as well. My wife is a homemaker for our two kids, 1 & 3. I pay a Napa mortgage. My wife somehow spares me for 13 hours a week of training, 50-60 races a year, the Gran Prix, mentoring, and now all the VP duties and a monthly 4 hour commute to Fremont for Board meetings.

I calculate at least 80 hours a week for all of the above. Money can't change the fact that your kids probably won't recognize you after this year.

Compensate the VP and elected board members. If a candidate refuses the stipend that's their choice. I certainly wouldn't hold it against a candidate for taking it. I'm all about the Benjamins.

This position is paid?? COOL! So there's grant money for races AND a wage for the officers? Tad, I should have talked to you a long time ago. You have all the inside scoop.

When I was running against Hernando, I assumed the position was uncompensated. The fact a small salary is received was one of the only selling factors in my negotiations this month with the Raphael Family before my resubmission of candidacy.

Look, I work a full time job for a government salary. I teach spin part time as well. My wife is a homemaker for our two kids, 1 & 3. I pay a Napa mortgage. My wife somehow spares me for 13 hours a week of training, 50-60 races a year, the Gran Prix, mentoring, and now all the VP duties and a monthly 4 hour commute to Fremont for Board meetings.

Your question of me (and Stefanie) is whether we'd like to opt out of compensation? I hope that it is not interpreted as a lack of dedication to the sport to say no, we prefer to be compensated for the work.

When I started in competitive cycling, nobody received money -- not the race officials, not the riders, and there were no professional race promoters in the area.

Things have changed, and now some things receive compensation. Avery Brundage is gone, for those who remember him and his ideas. (Avery Brundage was the long-time Chair of the Olympic Committee who had very strict ideas of what an amateur was -- no compensation).

For years, I have volunteered at certain races, and for years most of the money I have received as a race official has been pumped back into the sport, by buying needed equipment, promoting races practically guaranteed to lose money (such as 11 Junior track championships), etc.

When I decided to run for Vice President, it was to use my experience and abilities for the betterment of cycling in Northern California. I never even considered that there might be compensation, and I think that we could find better ways to use our funds than to pay an officer.

If elected, I will not accept any compensation for being Vice President. If there is any money involved, I will request that the money go to Junior racing or some similar cause.

== Eric