Alright, I'm breathing. Rapidly, but breathing. I agree, there's always room for improvement, but hey, I'm just glad it's getting better. Sorry dude, didn't mean to get overheated.[/i]

Like the mentoring done at Livermore Hills RR. :)

You got me all wrong bro.
The World doesn't need to be so extreme, just because I not dancing and singing praises doesn't mean I am flat out putting VP down.

Chill! Mellow...ohmmmmmmm, mellow.

I am just saying let's bring our expectations up a little before we start tossing out words like great, exceptional, or awesome. Let's keep those words for when something really is.

Madaxeman,

Personally, I'd rather look on the bright side and praise the improvement than complain about what I'd still like to see done.

I don't know if you read the Velo news article a while back about folks who put on bike races. Even the big ones don't tend to make money, most of the work is volunteer and, yes, out of the goodness of their hearts and love of the sport. I have no idea what Bob makes from this whole thing, but I know I'm really glad he does it.

Given that we all kept coming back when it took a month to get results, bitching and moaning all the while, getting results in less than 24 hours is a great improvement and shows that VP does in fact respond to the desires of its customers. Awesome? Maybe a little hyperbolic. Appreciated? Absolutely.

How do I participate in the process and hopefully make it even better? By withholding my appreciation and using this a avenue to air my other grievances? In my experience, praise invariably leads to even more improvement, while criticism in the face of an effort to improve usually leads to resignation and a why bother attitude. Thanks VP, and here's to continued improvement.

Either way, I am glad that VP does all that it does.

The races are well executed the people are generally cheerful, and I'm happy that Robert and crew do what they do....

Casey,
How many clubs do you see out there with blank jerseys?

Let's all stop with the VP is not making money speach.
I am not saying he is living off it, but he has a couple of kids that he might send to college. He may want to retire someday.
I am not saying any of this is bad or wrong. Heck, it's quite possibly a damn good plan.

Nobody does something for 20 years out of the pure goodness of thier heart, there is always a motivation of self service at some level. ALWAYS!

Are there races he takes a bath on? Of course, that's business. You have to invest a little to get a little. Kern is a way for him to give something back and hopefully grow a grass roots portion of his future customer base.
But...Kern could be made profitable or at least a break even. You have to give people a reason to drive ??? hours and race in ??? heat.
Reports from a few friends are that a few improvements would make the race a LOT better.

I am just saying let's not go handing out compliments willy nilly. Mediocrity does not exactly disserve applause. The job done has been fair, adequate, and marginally better than previous years. Certainly not disserving of the word "awesome".

If mediocrity is awesome, then nothing is awesome.

Mad Axeman, I certainly hope Velo Promo is making some profit or at least breaking even. Good races, good bargin of entry fees...
I know my bike shop is making money. I know equipment manufactors are making money. So, I certainly hope promoters are making money. I spend a lot more money on equipment then I do on entry fees...

Velo Promo and all the other promoters out there, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

As with any interaction with a business, the customer decides if it fails, as in yours, or one you visit. Look at your food shopping, auto repair, cycle shop, etc. If you don't like it, you don't visit.

You judge your business visits by the store's interest in the customer, "extra-effort" to please, price, etc. Velo Promo leaders, and the staff, seem to really enjoy seeing us. They try to recognize racers as individuals by name/team/appearence.

The staff all seem joyful. I tend to get to the start VERY EARLY to get set up in a relaxed mood and prepare. Many times I arrive before or just when Velo Promo staff show up. Though fast-paced and demanding tasks, they tend to appear excited to be there and enjoy each other with jokes, sarcastic response, team-effort.

It is a business, and they seem to keep asking for improvement ideas on their website and take time to listen at the event.

As for the calendar, I never attended a schedule meeting, seems like the early entry requests by teams/clubs is the primary factor of getting a date.

Mad Axeman wrote:Let's not go jumping to conclusions and over doing the credit.
There are a bunch of Clubs that don't put on races and the rule about it beig mandatory for a Club to promote a race doesn't seem to be enforced. Probably because we do not currently have a shortage of races.

There is no such rule that a club has to promote a race in order to be a club, or maintain club status. The rule is if a club wants to be a sponsored club ( ie have the ability to have a sponsor's name/logo on the jersey) they have to hold a race or help another club put on a race each year. A club that just has a plain Jersey with no sponsors on it has no obligation to hold a race each year.

Mad Axeman wrote:
I also think it would be very short sighted to assume VP will be around forever. There will come a day when the clubs or another race promotion company will need to take over the venues. Bob is not doing this for his health, and he is certainly not doing it because it's fun.

Nobody works a full time job and gives up damn near every weekend of the year for 20 years for nothing. There is a motivation behind VP and it's not completely selfless, and if you think otherwise I have some beach front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.
I am not saying it's wrong, it just is what it is and it seems most are forgetting the human nature factor.
others.

Over the whole time that Robert Leibold has been promoting races he might be even on his profit/loss statement thanks in part to the last few years being pretty good. WE are talking about someone who lost $30,000 on the 3 years he did the Tour of the Loneliest Road as well as had several other money losing events ( like the Kern Co Women's Stage race and probably most of the years he has done the Gold Nugget Stage race. Robert isn't promoting races to make money. When he does make money in a year he tends to put the money back into racing ( like buying registration tents, the stage truck and other equipment) instead of spending it on himself or his family.

Let's not go jumping to conclusions and over doing the credit.
There are a bunch of Clubs that don't put on races and the rule about it beig mandatory for a Club to promote a race doesn't seem to be enforced. Probably because we do not currently have a shortage of races.

Truthfully there is not much room on the calendar for more races, the race calendar meeting is already full of clubs fighting over the scraps of dates left.

So saying there wouldn't be very many races if VP folded is ill informed at best.

I also think it would be very short sighted to assume VP will be around forever. There will come a day when the clubs or another race promotion company will need to take over the venues. Bob is not doing this for his health, and he is certainly not doing it because it's fun.

Nobody works a full time job and gives up damn near every weekend of the year for 20 years for nothing. There is a motivation behind VP and it's not completely selfless, and if you think otherwise I have some beach front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.
I am not saying it's wrong, it just is what it is and it seems most are forgetting the human nature factor.

Everything in life is temporary, somethings are just more temporary than others.

Count me as another fan of Velo Promo. Most of the time their races have started on time. Most of the time the results have been posted promptly. Of course they're not perfect, but without Velo Promo, we would lose more than half of our road races.

Thanks Robert, family and staff!

Rick M.

I agree wholeheartedly,

Thank VP for getting the results up so fast, awesome work

Please clarify the whole Good/Bad thing.

Based on your comment I went and looked for an overall standings page and was unsuccesful. If you know of one, please post it for us techno-challenged gumbahs.

Thanks,
Ron