A normal win and out is where the first sprint is for the win. The next sprint is for 2nd place. Third sprint is for all of the remaining places. As Casey mentioned, on the road it may be difficult for a rider to know if they won (a close sprint) and then whether or not they need to continue to secure a place. On the track it's easy enough to hear the announcer relay the judge's call so the riders know within 10 seconds or so who won a sprint.
It's also hard for a breakaway to survive in a win and out because the break mates go so hard to win the first sprint, but then there is another sprint the next lap, so the breaks tend to fall apart or riders don't bother with a break in the first place.
A points race may be a better choice for the road, and the multiple sprints throughout the race tend to keep things going, as opposed to sprints only on the final few laps. You can offer primes on some of the sprint laps just to make some sprints more important.
And riders who are normally good in criteriums tend to favor the points race on the track as their favorite event because the physiological requirements are similar.
I like the point-a-lap idea too, but if the race is only 20 laps you'll need to offer points for more than just 1st place each lap or there won't be many people scoring points. Lots of riders will just sit in and wait for the final sprint because the final sprint placings are the tie-breakers for people tied on points, even if they have no points.
How about a criterium miss-n-out for the cat 5's? :lol:
I did a cat 3 criterium miss-n-out at Somerville, NJ about 25 years ago. That was one hairball race.
A point a lap isn't that hard of a concept even for roadies to understand :). A format like 1 point for every lap with every 3rd lap being worth 3/2/1 points is what we use to do at the old Oakland twilights for the last month of the season. To make things even more interesting we made every point worth 50 cents ( remember this was many years ago when 50 cents was worth something). Guys would be sprinting out of the final corner ( about 400 meters from the finish) to try and pick up a point and their 50 cents
One of the hardest races I ever did was at the track where we did a 100 lap race where the leader of each lap earned $3. Lapped riders were pulled from the race since it wouldn't be fair to let someone rest while getting lapped and then have them challenge for the lap money. I think we only had 3 finishers for that race. If you had a cash prize list you could figure out how many laps, how many points you could award and then give a $$ value to each point.
I actually worry about having a multi sprint end of race event like a win and out ( or reverse win and out in this proposal) since you don't have the same ability to communicate with the riders like you do at the track
Using a race format from the track is a great idea. Then there's the point-a-lap format which would favor an aggressive rider, yet would be more difficult to score. Both of these takes away the mindset of sit in and sprint.
ZebraMan wrote:At Casey's suggestion, I am considering trying a different format for the upcoming Napa Downtown and Riverfront Gran Prix on June 21.
Since the Napa race is on the same day as the AVC-Hellyer Park keep in mind that a bunch of riders who race on the track won't be at Napa.
A normal win and out is where the first sprint is for the win. The next sprint is for 2nd place. Third sprint is for all of the remaining places. As Casey mentioned, on the road it may be difficult for a rider to know if they won (a close sprint) and then whether or not they need to continue to secure a place. On the track it's easy enough to hear the announcer relay the judge's call so the riders know within 10 seconds or so who won a sprint.
It's also hard for a breakaway to survive in a win and out because the break mates go so hard to win the first sprint, but then there is another sprint the next lap, so the breaks tend to fall apart or riders don't bother with a break in the first place.
A points race may be a better choice for the road, and the multiple sprints throughout the race tend to keep things going, as opposed to sprints only on the final few laps. You can offer primes on some of the sprint laps just to make some sprints more important.
And riders who are normally good in criteriums tend to favor the points race on the track as their favorite event because the physiological requirements are similar.
I like the point-a-lap idea too, but if the race is only 20 laps you'll need to offer points for more than just 1st place each lap or there won't be many people scoring points. Lots of riders will just sit in and wait for the final sprint because the final sprint placings are the tie-breakers for people tied on points, even if they have no points.
How about a criterium miss-n-out for the cat 5's? :lol:
I did a cat 3 criterium miss-n-out at Somerville, NJ about 25 years ago. That was one hairball race.
A point a lap isn't that hard of a concept even for roadies to understand :). A format like 1 point for every lap with every 3rd lap being worth 3/2/1 points is what we use to do at the old Oakland twilights for the last month of the season. To make things even more interesting we made every point worth 50 cents ( remember this was many years ago when 50 cents was worth something). Guys would be sprinting out of the final corner ( about 400 meters from the finish) to try and pick up a point and their 50 cents
One of the hardest races I ever did was at the track where we did a 100 lap race where the leader of each lap earned $3. Lapped riders were pulled from the race since it wouldn't be fair to let someone rest while getting lapped and then have them challenge for the lap money. I think we only had 3 finishers for that race. If you had a cash prize list you could figure out how many laps, how many points you could award and then give a $$ value to each point.
I actually worry about having a multi sprint end of race event like a win and out ( or reverse win and out in this proposal) since you don't have the same ability to communicate with the riders like you do at the track
Using a race format from the track is a great idea. Then there's the point-a-lap format which would favor an aggressive rider, yet would be more difficult to score. Both of these takes away the mindset of sit in and sprint.