SJBC: Winter Series 4 Person Team Time Trial

Points are awarded for placement: 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 then 1 for remaining groups. Each person on the team receives placement points.

Points are then added to the person totals on the following trophies:
Time Trial Champion, Overall Champion, Junior Trophy, Women Trophy

Since the team can be made up of mixed categories, no points for category champion is awarded.

Actual Time is added to the Scratch Trophy competition. Scratch trophy is given to the rider who has the lowest actual time over all 6 time trials.

2009-2010 Winter Series Site:
http://www.teamsanjose.org/ws/2009/

Jonathan Racine
Club President
San Jose Bicycle Club

Doesn't SJBC have a TTT event as part of their winter series? Maybe Jonathan can explain how it's scored and how it impacts the overall GC?

Back to the thread topic. I'm now wondering, if there was a Madera-like two day three stage weekend event, if a Friday TTT could be as part of a team classification. Individuals still race for themselves and the individual overall on the weekend but a team prize could be given based on the TTT and top placings of 2-3 team memebers on the RR and crit. Only teams racing the TTT are competing for the team prize and individual racers can still focus on just the Sat/Sun events. Soliciting for feedback or any other ideas about how we can get a TTT at least partially linked to a weekend event.

Hey Jess, plenty of costumes and obstacles at the third annual Galland Halloween Cyclocross Drag Race. It's a ride/party at my place in Paradise. We all "race" a 'cross course in costume on my property then grill burgers/dogs and drink beer. This year it's Oct. 18. Incriminating photos/videos from prior years can be found with a google search for said event. No, that's NOT me wearing fishnet. We've got the cycling groove goin' on up Chico way!

Hey Jeff ....
Much as I love and support original thinking by promoters, just don't do it. Tom said what I was going to, and a few other thoughts:
Your podium finishers would unquestionably all be from the same team. What a bore.
Also, you would eliminate day-of registration, and create untolled disappointment when a team's third or fourth guy is sick, late, or simply no-shows. And why penalize two guys when their teammate flats?
Not to mention the added logistical problems for the officials and for you as promoter.

But good to hear you thinking outside the box. How about costumes? Or obstacles?

By the way, I believe the Madera Crit should have more time bonuses at stake for the GC.

Here's my simple advice about having a TTT in a stage race - don't do it. There are several reasons for this. As Casey pointed out, the event must be team entry only to be at all feasible. The default is for the TTT to only count toward team g.c. If it does count toward individual g.c., the race bible has to spell out how it works. It would be something like timing the third rider. Riders finishing OTB get their actual time. The TdF experimented with arbitrarily maximums on time gaps between teams, so that a team could only lose a certain amount of time to the team that beat it. TTT's are occasionally part of longer stage races, but only at events with a lot of structure and many days of racing. I can't recall any domestic events using them in the last year or so. We had one at Vulcan Tour (Redding, 80's) one time and it did not really help the event.

My real concern is that the essence of stage racing is road races. From my perspective, you don't have a real stage race until you have at least two road races. This is particularly true if the event is run on time. A TTT is probably the last event sort of event that you want to add.

In designing a stage race it is important to have the right mix of events, so that the gains and losses from the stages are proportional. Not every stage has to be extremely selective, but you do want multiple stages to matter. For example, the TT should be of such a length that it matters, but is not the entire race.

It is also for this reason that if a "stage race" is in the format of one each of RR, Crit and TT, it is frequently better to use points - the problem is that the TT becomes the entire race unless the RR is extremely selective. A prime example is Madera Stage Race. I understand that people want the experience of riding a timed stage race, but I think that going to time for the 2-day 3-event classes actually makes the race not work so well. The amount that can be gained via time bonuses is not much - you can expect our rules to move the UCI standard time bonuses of 10,6 and 4 seconds for full stages by next year (before somebody corrects me after watching the Vuelta, only grand tours have higher bonuses - and those are 3 weeks in length).

A TTT could be a part of a Stage Race, with or without a team category, if the results affect the individuals' points (in an Omnium) or time (as they do the time in the Tour de France). A team category would add its own wrinkles to team strategies both for the TTT as well as the overall Stage Race or Omnium.

Having said that, Casey rightly points out the problem on the NCNCA level is that racers usually register as individuals. I know that my team has sometimes signed up a bunch of folks for a race, only to find out that 6 riders are spread across 4 race categories (3/4, 4/5, and different Masters categories, etc.). Having a TTT in a Stage Race would encourage racers coordinating their entries. But it might also discourage individuals or singleton entries, and in many race groupings they can be a majority. Composite teams for the TTT might be a way to encourage more singleton registrations, but if your overall results are impacted by these groupings, it could lead to more headaches and issues for organizers as well as discourage participation.

In the end I kind of agree that this may not work for the lower level cats that often are predominantly singleton entries (E+M 4/5s, W4s, etc.). But it could work at the higher levels with more established teams and riders who are more cognizant of each other’s ability (making rider formed composite teams a more viable option). The example where I’m thinking a TTT may apply is like that of the Madera stage race, where the P/1/2 racers do an extra time trial stage. Most racers do 3 stages (Crit and TT on Saturday, and the RR on Sunday), but the P/1/2s do an extra TT on Friday. An organizer could theoretically have those upper groups do a TTT instead of a second TT. As for how many racers in the TTT, why not allow teams of up to 5 compete with the time taken on the third racer. This would allow larger teams, but also allow smaller groups or composites who only want to field 3 to enter anyway.

Personally, I’d love to see more Stage Racing in NCNCA. Right now we’ve got Madera early in the season and then the Kern and Golden Nugget races for Women and Juniors. Is anyone, a team or group of teams or clubs thinking of putting one together?

I really like the idea Casey. The idea will bring in "team" work that would be cool to follow. Now the trick is, how do you get fans or non-fans to understand the dynamically fun nature of stage racing - it is about one person but it's ultimately about team work. Predictions, discussions, etc etc. love it!

TTT are also cool to watch! We all work hard to fit our lean muscular body into the skin tight lycra and damn, it's very hot to watch. Add into that the massive wattage all over the course - can you already hear the disk wheels flying by with power?. It's glamorous and insanely like synchronize swimming.

There's no other way I see but to limit the entries. The goal is really who's got the strongest team overall.

Not sure if I am making any sense but you got me excited on this idea!

:lol:

The race would have to be limited to team entries only. Riders who weren't on a team would have to be put into composite teams for the sake of the race. Also a TTT doesn't make much sense unless you have a team category for the race.

Personally I love the idea.
The probable reality is that you may limit your entries to the point that the race may not have that big of a draw.

Perhaps a 2 man TT as a testing ground and see how it goes.

Good stuff, keep us posted.

Ron