I'll second Peter on the fewer primes but deeper prize list approach. I think deeper prize lists leads to better racing action since more people are still in the hunt for prizes later into the race.

For all the minor crashes at Napa, we had NO ambulance calls. Ernie's pre-race collision with Joe Saunders and Bernie's less-than-superman over the haybales on the final turn 4 were the only medicals other than road rash.

Happily, next year part of the budget is for additional safety hay on the Crazy P turn. (Which also means no more jumping the curb. :roll: ) Good for softening crashes, and keeps Zebraman and his family fed all year! Perk.

primes were good for pros, i really like selling laps for primes!!!! more promoters should do that.
primes for lower classes were only satisfactory to disapointing. but man that race went well. I understand and support that promoters pull there primes together for pro races, in order to bring in bigger names and numbers.. I just wish the north cal mens racing was as much fun to watch as the womans lol. man I love being up here in nor cal!!!!

ZebraMan wrote:
Which reminds me, why is it that primes are so scant at crits? I mean, at the Carrera they had like 3 gift certificate primes for the 35+ 1/2/3 race....

BTW, those gift certificates were worth over $500. Would you rather have a bunch of Clif bar/ tire lever primes or a few really nice ones? (As an ironic aside, my teammate Dario Fredrick & Whole Athlete donated those primes... and Dario unintentionally won one while off the front in a break. :lol: )

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of primes b/c I think they can discourage/ disrupt breaks. I'd rather see a deeper prize list than a gaggle of primes.

Anyway, props to you, Jess, for putting on the Napa crashfest, I mean, crit and trying to bump it up a notch for next year. 8) I'll be back - and soooo happy I won't have to race it again in the 3's. Maybe you could do special primes for the lower cats of gauze, Surgilast, & Tegaderm?

I will second the HIP HIP for Robert Liebold, any day!!!

As a downtown race promoter myself, I appreciate the cost factor of the Twilight, but I have to say that it's the sponsors who make a City race happen, not pre-reg fees. And doesn't it sometimes seem like the races with the biggest sponsors end up charging the highest reg fees (and offering the - proportionately - smallest prizes)?

I would always prefer to pay $25 to do a VP race for a t-shirt than to get reamed by Sea Otter 4-5 different ways. Seems to me the Twilight is somewhere in the middle. It's not the best value, but it is a first-year race trying to make it happen against very difficult odds.

I have to say that the Carrera is such an enjoyable and exhilirating experience that it's worth a few bucks more, even with the promise of peanuts for prizes. I expect that the Twilight will be the same thrilling show.

Just as an aside - The Downtown Napa Association is stepping up big for next year's Gran Prix. Plans are for a full family festival atmosphere, including live bands, lots of booths and a kids' area. I feel pretty damned certain that by spending sweat on finding sponsors, we can do it while keeping our reg fee reasonable, like Velo Promo's, and our prize list attractive.

Which reminds me, why is it that primes are so scant at crits? I mean, at the Carrera they had like 3 gift certificate primes for the 35+ 1/2/3 race. They are the easiest thing in the world for a promoting club to rustle up. I mean, you can go to any restaurant in town and they'll give you a couple of coupons for lunch for two. At Napa we had 42 primes (and none of them tubes or water bottles), including an outlandish 15 primes for the 35+ 1/2/3 points race. And that was for a race that was planned and executed in five weeks by two people. The sponsors are out there and willing, if you just ask. Lets' reward the racers every way we can.

Okay, I'm done spewing.

Zebraman

p.s. - I'll be at Folsom. I think we need more stage races and omniums. And the Twilight didn't invite me or any of my geezer friends. :x

JoeRacer wrote:What do you spend more on?
Equipment?
or
Race Entry Fees?

gas, hands down

hollywood wrote:WOW! doesn't take much to get you guys going! In my own way of writing i was merely asking why so expensive, what are they truly offering to the riders to justify the cost increase. the posting here on the board has been a bit slow lately.

If it's high permit/cop costs that's understandable, the event being in SF and lacking the usual 5A, 5B, 35+5, 45+5, and 5-recumbent categories that normally pay the bills. It's Year One, perhaps next time some sponsor money or other events could fill in that gap.

But we should watch for and bark at "what will the market bear?" pricing for races. We don't want cat 3/4 entry fees to be set by the 100 most financially able racers (that mid career professional whose rain bike rolls on 808s). When an event is run by a professional promoter I'm more on the lookout for that. But I'm still in therapy over $10 parking and $40whatever fees at Infineon. And I recall a run into the ground event from some years back whose budget had more pork than the farm bill.

Moment of appreciation for $28/23 first, $11.50 second race Bob "Giro" Liebold & Metromint. Can I hear an amen?

R4L

What do you spend more on?
Equipment?
or
Race Entry Fees?

Add it up, year to year. Yep. Most spend WAY more on equipment. Skip a year of buying $1400 Carbon Wheels and that will pay for race entry fees for a few years.
You can compete and win races on a Aluminum Bike with 105 components. Most of the stuff out there is pushed by marketing...

Thanks Pete
I know it has a hill, but just like writing in this forum, I am a glutton for punishment.

WAHmbulance!!! that was great.

Thanks Justin, i can use that.

well its definetly not the kids eating, cause rich isnt good enough looking to pull in more than a nickle a trick. or maybe he is hawking his wifes wedding ring? hey rich its got a hill!!!!!!!!!!!

To add to my list

Downtown/Residential
Davis 4th of July
Martinez
Watsonville
Land Park
Chico
Albany
Burlngame
Original Merced
Hanford
Vacaville
Lafayette
Suisun

Industrial Park
Memorial day
Wente
Pleasanton
Dash for Cash
Jr Crit Championships

WOW! doesn't take much to get you guys going! In my own way of writing i was merely asking why so expensive, what are they truly offering to the riders to justify the cost increase. the posting here on the board has been a bit slow lately. just wanted to see what would stir the pot, you guys are too easy. I'm signed up so no further bashing necessary

Thanks for the breakdown Casey, nice to see it that way.

Does your team not help you with race entry costs? Maybe it's time to find a new team.

I think we may have more downtown/residential Crits than office park Crits around here.

A few races in the downtown/residential category are

Cat's Hill
MERCO
Napa
Visalia
Tower
San Rafael
Santa Cruz
Giro
Nevada City
Modesto

In the Office park Crit Category
Early Birds
Menlo Park
Golden State
Corporate Crit
2 Wheel Crit
Timpany

Feel free to jump in and add races to the appropriate category

Maybe you'd prefer one more 8am race in a business park with no crowd, no prize money, no announcer, and $20 less in entry fees?

Somebody call the WAHmbulance.

I only hope to have one day, your unlimited racing budget PeterPen. Yeah,I was whining, so what, after almost 30 races this year, my offshore bank account is dry, I will most likely suck it up and enter anyway. The kids don't have to eat this week. Hahahahahahaha :roll:

casey wrote:But down towards the bottom of your link they list the single race entry fee. It looks like entering all three races will give you a discount.
Now I get it...

Doing one or two of three sounds much more doable for me at this point.

hollywood wrote:...Is it really 2 1/4 times better than the Giro di SF which is $23?

....

It's easily 2.25 times harder/more expensive to organize a new Saturday night event in Cow Hollow than an established Sunday daytime event in a deserted corner of the financial district (not to take anything away from the Giro, a truly fantastic race.)

Major props to Project Sport for even attempting to pull this off. I'll be there volunteering as a course marshal... not whining about how expensive it is.

But down towards the bottom of your link they list the single race entry fee. It looks like entering all three races will give you a discount.

Oh I interpreted it to mean one has to complete all three events, one has to just pay for all three just in case one does all three.

The second sentence of this seems to imply that:
http://www.folsomcyclebration.com/Road_Bike_Omnium.html

Folsom is an omnium so you can pick and chose which of the 3 events you want to do and still be eligible for the overall prize.

re: Folsom
I think one has to complete the previous stages so it's 75 plus possible overnight stays for folks from SF area.

initially i had same thought, but then i remember how hard it is for promoters to get any race permits and the cost of security & set up. I cant even imagine how much they had to pay or will be paying for there permits for this location and the police officers.
another good thing about this is there are alot of people like you or me who question paying $53 dollars to race. That means instead of this race filling up in just minutes of opening at 12pm, it gave me time to consider what else I would do with my $53..... well I am registered to race now. Rich you can allways race the folsom race, same day.