I'm not doing the Otter again. I was in the 40+ 4 race and flatted. After getting a wheel change I had a mechanical issue that distracted me, hit a pothole, and crashed. My entire right side was chewed up, I was shaky and bleeding into my shoes.

I waited over 30 minutes for medical attention with a police unit and flagger. They made numerous calls to control, stating where I was, and that I needed assistance.

Finally I got fed up with waiting and rode myself out of there on a broken frame, only to find the paramedics sitting at the turn to go up Barlow. The official in charge refused them entry onto the course, saying that no one had crashed and he would know if someone did.

Rather than err on the side of caution, he erred on the side of stupidity and his own little ego. When I arrived at the turn he had nothing but some smart comment about how screwed up everybody else was.

I wrote a letter to the Sea Otter folks, and got a call from the lady in charge of medical support. She heard all the transmissions, apologized, Etc. After hanging up the phone I thought "she heard all this and I was still left out there?"

They messed up my result last year. It's annoying, but this was simply inexusable. Results are one thing, our health and safety is another. Between this and watching an ambulance sit behind a bunch of riders heading up the hill in the circuit race, because they didn't plan for and instruct riders on what to do in this event, I can only come to the conclusion that there's a big gap between the money going in, and the product going out.

I think the midget toss was right between the mud wrestling and the wet t-shirt contest.

I think SO gets such good press because of the spectacle and I bet those writing about it in the bike rags aren't racing in the category events (or at all). The 'press' are impressed by the sheer size, the tents, the events and are probably woefully unaware of the results issues we salt of the earth racers endure. Subtract your entry fee and maybe it's not such an expensive event to attend. Also, ever see such a screw up in the results of a Pro event? That what they cover.

Not that I endorse a boycott or smear campaign - but did anybody write a letter to our favorite (or not so favorite) bike mags? Seems the only way to show the other side of the beloved Otter.
X

roadie4life wrote:CPhipps wrote:
I understand the 15 minute rule, but I guess there is no rule about how quickly results must be posted?

This is only my first year racing, but at all the races I've been to the results have been posted in a reasonable time (less than 1 hour), except for Sea Otter. It took between 2-3 hours for them to post results for my races on both Friday & Saturday.

Bingo!

This is total BS. As if an SO racer can sit around by the results area waiting for that 16 minute window when they see the results are posted, and put in the protest "hey the first place finisher in the Cat 3 circuit race wasn't Emma Ledbury, it was me (but I'll give up my T-shirt if you give her my phone number)." That moment might come 20 minutes after the event or 90 minutes or might not come at all - but hey, it's your responsibility as a racer to wait!

You did the race, you're knackered and dried out and want (no, NEED) the liter of water and salt & vinegar chips stashed in your back seat, but your car is 15 minutes and two bridges away so you can't leave in case you miss the results! And you're wearing wet-diaper cycling trou and your butt itches. How long do you sit on the off chance the results are posted?

I got down on Bikeapalooza LLC after Sears Point Opus One...$40 plus $10 to park (paid parking! at a bike race! for racers!) for what 50 minutes of racing? Not so much. SO is a blast and I'm glad it's there but hey, pry open the wallet and the problem goes away. The suggestion I'd throw to SO/SBO is...pretend the circuit race is the only event...how would you staff that? Sh*tcan the timing chips in the road events. Get three spotters for numbers on every lap, maybe? Three shifts? That's 9 people. Post results within 20 minutes. Every crit in the NCNCA manages to do it why not at SO? "It's SO so busy" - yeah OK but FOCUS!...pretend the midget-toss event isn't going on by the Maxxis tent and it's just another crit that happens to be on laguna seca...OK, how hard is it to spit out results? It's not hard.

R4L

This reply was almost worth this whole damn SO quagmire.
We're still laughing and wondering how exactly we missed the midget toss.

Sabine

CPhipps wrote:
I understand the 15 minute rule, but I guess there is no rule about how quickly results must be posted?

This is only my first year racing, but at all the races I've been to the results have been posted in a reasonable time (less than 1 hour), except for Sea Otter. It took between 2-3 hours for them to post results for my races on both Friday & Saturday.

Bingo!

This is total BS. As if an SO racer can sit around by the results area waiting for that 16 minute window when they see the results are posted, and put in the protest "hey the first place finisher in the Cat 3 circuit race wasn't Emma Ledbury, it was me (but I'll give up my T-shirt if you give her my phone number)." That moment might come 20 minutes after the event or 90 minutes or might not come at all - but hey, it's your responsibility as a racer to wait!

You did the race, you're knackered and dried out and want (no, NEED) the liter of water and salt & vinegar chips stashed in your back seat, but your car is 15 minutes and two bridges away so you can't leave in case you miss the results! And you're wearing wet-diaper cycling trou and your butt itches. How long do you sit on the off chance the results are posted?

I got down on Bikeapalooza LLC after Sears Point Opus One...$40 plus $10 to park (paid parking! at a bike race! for racers!) for what 50 minutes of racing? Not so much. SO is a blast and I'm glad it's there but hey, pry open the wallet and the problem goes away. The suggestion I'd throw to SO/SBO is...pretend the circuit race is the only event...how would you staff that? Sh*tcan the timing chips in the road events. Get three spotters for numbers on every lap, maybe? Three shifts? That's 9 people. Post results within 20 minutes. Every crit in the NCNCA manages to do it why not at SO? "It's SO so busy" - yeah OK but FOCUS!...pretend the midget-toss event isn't going on by the Maxxis tent and it's just another crit that happens to be on laguna seca...OK, how hard is it to spit out results? It's not hard.

R4L

MPetersen wrote:The only way to actually fix these results now would be for the USCF officials to contact Sea Otter or SBO and request that they change the results. Quote: I know that the Chief Referee will not change the results, they are as they stand, he abides by the 15 minute protest period and was standing in the tent with me for your wave's protest period.

I understand the 15 minute rule, but I guess there is no rule about how quickly results must be posted?
If a person places in a race, and they want to be sure to receive credit, are they are required to wait at the results area indefinitely?

This is only my first year racing, but at all the races I've been to the results have been posted in a reasonable time (less than 1 hour), except for Sea Otter. It took between 2-3 hours for them to post results for my races on both Friday & Saturday.

The only way to actually fix these results now would be for the USCF officials to contact Sea Otter or SBO and request that they change the results. Quote: I know that the Chief Referee will not change the results, they are as they stand, he abides by the 15 minute protest period and was standing in the tent with me for your wave's protest period.

SBO wrote:I am curious as to what you would suggest as a possible solution?
I have no experience organizing an event of this type, especially one the size of the Sea Otter. I'm also not involved directly in the workings of the event and the procedures that are in place. That makes it difficult to provide an educated suggestion. Anything I would suggest would only be from an outsider or client. But, I'm an unhappy client. And it appears that many others are also unhappy. And I am seeing the same problems year after year. So that bothers me.

The only further insight I have to this year's problems are the comments from various individuals. I can see that there might be a communication problem among the various groups running the event. I've noted at least three groups: the Sea Otter staff, the timing company, and the officials. How well are these groups organized? How much time is spent ahead of time to make sure there's cooperation and organization between the groups? Have backup plans been considered? If timing chips fail how will results be handled? Who will handle getting the initial results posted for the 15 minute protest period? Questions like these need to be considered if they aren't already.

When I see problems repeated year after year I begin to think the failure is in the organizer of the event. That the organizer washes their hands of the event once it's over and forgets all that has happened. Then the following year's event comes along and all of those previous year's mistakes are faded memories.

Does the Sea Otter management take note of the problems? Do they perform a post-mortem? One step in the right direction is the follow up survey they recently sent to competitors ( see http://www.seaotterclassic.com/survey.asp ). Let's hope people respond and that the event management listens.

I do hope for the Sea Otter Classic to survive and to be successful. I've enjoyed racing in this event for many years. And I would like to do so in the years ahead. I hope to see the event's management show more appreciation and respect to the racers, especially the amateurs, by making an honest commitment to provide an experience at the level of quality expected from this event.

hansk wrote:I find the following quote from Timberline Timing Systems rather amusing:

pgordis wrote:I share your frustration as does Sea Otter management regarding the results procedures or lack thereof that were implemented at the event. I believe the sheer size and volume of the event overwhelmed the officials and their ability to process results in a timely and accurate fashion.

These problems have been occuring for years. This is not a recent problem. I hate to say it but they share in the wealth from the bounty they acquire from the "sheer size and volume of the event". I simply do not believe the Sea Otter management shares in our frustration.

Why is it they can not or do not solve this problem? Maybe because it's simply not worth the effort on their part?

:?
H
hansk,
I am curious as to what you would suggest as a possible solution?
SBO

casey wrote:since Sea Otter was an NRC event then under the USCF rules they were required to have a frameless photofinish camera for use in judging the finish.

Casey,
The RR was not NRC so they were not required to have a photofinish camera. It would not have made a difference in this situation...If the officials say the guy is a lap down it doesnt matter what a chip/camera tells you.

SBO

I find the following quote from Timberline Timing Systems rather amusing:

pgordis wrote:I share your frustration as does Sea Otter management regarding the results procedures or lack thereof that were implemented at the event. I believe the sheer size and volume of the event overwhelmed the officials and their ability to process results in a timely and accurate fashion.

These problems have been occuring for years. This is not a recent problem. I hate to say it but they share in the wealth from the bounty they acquire from the "sheer size and volume of the event". I simply do not believe the Sea Otter management shares in our frustration.

Why is it they can not or do not solve this problem? Maybe because it's simply not worth the effort on their part?

It was a shame in 2002 when Sea Otter timing problems got me. It's a complete shame that four years later the Sea Otter still has these timing problems.

And why isn't there any coverage in any of the cycling magazines regarding this problem?

:?

I wanted to thank again various contributors to this topic and to bring you up-to-date.

I have sent three separate e-mails to "info@seaotterclassic.com" with various "evidence" asking them to try to fix the results as possible. I have received zippo in the way of a reply.

The results have not been changed either.

However, I did find that I had kept my ankle timing chip with me after the event and when I mailed it back to Timberline Timing Systems in Colorado, I enclosed with the chip a copy of my original post here.

I received back the following thoughtful and informative e-mail which possibly clarifies some of the problems with the results in the road races at Sea Otter.

Patrick,

We received your timing chip in the mail today along with your note regarding the Men's 40 + Cat 4 road race results at Sea Otter.
I appreciate your comments and apologize for your omission from the results of a race that you won.

The preliminary results that we printed for the race based on the chip timing data have you winning the race by 1:04, which matches the 1 minute margin of victory that you estimated. We were instructed by the USCF Officials to remove 7 riders from the results including you. The officials determined based on their manual lap count sheets that the 7 riders did not complete all of the laps on the course before crossing the finish line. We did not have chip timing equipment set up on the lap portion of the course and as a consequence were unable to support or refute the officials' lap tracking data.

With regard to the delayed posting of results, per USCF rules, no results can be posted without the approval of the officials and the fifteen minute rule applies with regard to protesting the results once they are posted. The chip timing system at the road finish line was connected via wireless connection to the timing and results trailer located next to the Laguna Seca track. Preliminary results were available immediately for posting, however, no USCF officials were available to approve the results for posting. The officials remained at the road race finish line until all events were completed, and then returned to the track to approve the results that were subsequently posted well after the conclusion of the events.

I share your frustration as does Sea Otter management regarding the results procedures or lack thereof that were implemented at the event. I believe the sheer size and volume of the event overwhelmed the officials and their ability to process results in a timely and accurate fashion. Regardless of these issues, as a paying customer you deserve better than you received this year. I encourage you to contact USCF and voice your concerns and apologize again for your experience at Sea Otter this year.

Sincerely,

Mark Moore
Timberline Timing Systems

My take on this letter is that Mark at Timberline wants his product to perform an accurate function, cares if it fails to do that and wants to make sure this does not happen again.

I am sorry to say that none of those good qualities came across in this response we saw posted here by a USCF official:

MPetersen wrote:I was the protest official for the Amatur Road Races and no such complant came through me. You need to remember to check the race results as soon as they are posted, the protest period ends 15 minutes after the results have been posted. The problem was more than likely a very easy thing for me to verify and change for you. -Melanie

In my original post on this topic, I assumed that it was the official(s) in charge who botched the results. The Sea Otter organization, SBO & Timberline etc. may share some responsibility, but ultimately it was the officials in charge of judging the finish of this event who omitted the winner, included riders down a lap as the first and second place finishers and took I am guessing three hours or more to post the results long after everyone had left.

The only way to actually fix these results now would be for the USCF officials to contact Sea Otter or SBO and request that they change the results.

We now have the testimonials of the other racers, the information on the timining chip for my number (760) and there is also now available at Brightroom.com my finish photo:

http://www.brightroom.com/view_user_photo.asp?PID=&EVENTID=11463&PWD=&ID...

If you go to the "photobrowser" link from this photo, you can see the finishing sequence. The next frames are of the 30+ winner.

Thanks,

Patrick Gordis, GPC

since Sea Otter was an NRC event then under the USCF rules they were required to have a frameless photofinish camera for use in judging the finish.

Steephil said
Quote:Not using a finish line camera as backup is both risky and lazy.
Quote:They need to change the results and ship him the medal he deserves for his impressive win.

If we get the correct info from the timing company and we are allowed to do so we will repost the results (it sounds like we may have already). It is not our call to have or not have cameras at the RR finish. If we would have been asked we would have gladly provided them.

SBO

chucknorris wrote:Sea Otter is a cool event, there are thousands of people and so far only a handful of complainers. Be happy weve got it, and were not racing in another corperate center. If you dont like it dont come, but boycotting such a huge and bicycle progressing event is un called for.
have fun and be safe :!: :!:

Some good points for sure - and Official Melanie's point above is also good... but when the reports I've read indicate results were not posted for hours after the race, the 15 minute protest seems too little. it's hard to endure that much time in stand-by mode after a hard race. Go take a shower and you risk missing the protest period. I wonder, are the estimates of the delay in posting results accurate? We can be a bitchy bunch.

I sympathize with Mr. Gordis, the actual winner of a race for which he will never be awarded upgrade points nor his 'winnings'. Seems winning solo should have been easy to credit. Makes me think of the current baseball dope scandal - sure, we who read this forum might recall he 'won' the race. But in weeks/months/years, will there be an asterisk next the name of the winner on record? Doubt it. Maybe it should be changed to bicycle exhibitions rather than races, finish order just for fun... ditch the expensive finish order technology and greatly reduce the entry fees. Or this all wrong? Do we not really care about finish order Mr. Norris?

I'll take your advise and simply not do the race and I wouldn't waste my time on a boycott. I can get screwed up results for half the price at plenty of other races. Really, I 'm not this negative by nature, add a touch of sarcasm to the text.

Sea Otter is a cool event, there are thousands of people and so far only a handful of complainers. Be happy weve got it, and were not racing in another corperate center. If you dont like it dont come, but boycotting such a huge and bicycle progressing event is un called for.
have fun and be safe :!: :!:

It's sad to hear the Sea Otter is still having these timing problems. This has been an ongoing problem for years. You would hope that they would have solved it by now.

I was burned by the timing problems back in 2002 and wrote a scathing report. Just google "sea otter race timing problems" to find it and want to hear echoes from the past that are sadly still present today.

I was the protest official for the Amatur Road Races and no such complant came through me. You need to remember to check the race results as soon as they are posted, the protest period ends 15 minutes after the results have been posted. The problem was more than likely a very easy thing for me to verify and change for you. -Melanie

FYI, I received an e-mail today that my results have been fixed! :D

SBO wrote:Patrick,
There were no finish line cameras for the RR (that I know of) just the CR.

Not using a finish line camera as backup is both risky and lazy.

SBO wrote:
Sorry to hear about how it went down but it sounds like everyone else knows you won as well.

They need to change the results and ship him the medal he deserves for his impressive win.

I thought I was the only one with results problems!! I finsihed 4th in the circuit race and waited 3.5 for the results to be posted!!! IN THE RAIN! They was a problem with officials I was told.
Then the MTB race, my name was not listed on the results so I protested. Then they came out with the worng time for me...by over 10 minutes. Turns out they gave me the wrong BIB # and the guy who has my BIB was in my race so are results are switched. I'm working with SBO to get this resolved

Patrick,
It is very said the way they handled the results I mentioned via e-mail 4 days ago about the postings and have still not seen a reply. They had my results off by 13 places as if that mattered in the end. And if SBO was doing the chips then why did they show a handful of riders finish at 1 hr which was not the case.
It was my first Sea Otter and for next year I am not sure after the way they handled it. They did not even mention some of the winners when they crossed the line in the MTB or the circuit.

Thanks again to Kieran, John Mundelius and others for their info., feedback and support.

I've been assured from all quarters much more knowledgeable than I am that Moses and his ten plagues would not induce Sea Otter to even attempt to correct the various bogus results of which mine was only one example. Therefore, I plan to "moveon.org" from this campaign...

In terms of the breakaway I bridged up to, I was not sure what John and Karl had in mind. I could not tell if you guys were totally in earnest or if you were "working" for someone else on your team back in the pack. To be honest, I was not really sure what I was doing up there either at first. Then I flashed back to the sage advice posted in this forum by Michael Hernandez in his Patterson Pass race report from last summer which I have often pondered in the lonely miles training:

[Excerpted from http://www.ncncaracing.com/reports/2005/0813_patterson.php]

"I've often said that the difference between the rider who wins and the rider who loses is that the winning rider knew EXACTLY what needed to be done to create that win. It's very, very rare that you spontaneously arrive in a position to win a race. The vast majority of wins are done by folks who have that moment of clarity when they see the path and what it will take to travel it...and then, they fully and utterly commit themselves to accomplishing their goal. There are times when fully committing to a poor race tactic will yield a better result in a race than not committing to any tactic at all."

In plain English, I decided that I had already committed myself in some sense to this small break and that it was now "ganz oder gar nicht" for me. I then gave it my absolute all for the rest of the race. I tried to stay "in control" of my effort and not dig too deep at any given moment. This worked well until about the last 1km whose steepness I had drastically underestimated and I had a near complete physical and psychological breakdown but I made it -- just barely -- over those apparently meaningless rubber mounds thinking "victory" was so close at hand (ha-ha).

Also, since I had never raced this exact course, I tried to read various race reports in advance to get some insight about how to approach the event and I found these comments by CVC's Chad Fischer from last year's Sea Otter Road race resonated well with what I remembered about the similar Ford Ord race:

http://www.cvcycling.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=626

"TOUGH course. The thing about the RR course is that you are never at a disadvantage being in a breakaway because everyone in the race has to do quite a lot of work even just to stay in the pack. In this race it is best to be aggressive and stay on your toes. The course wears on everyone, whether you are right up front or hanging on at the back. "

Thanks again to one and all!

Patrick Gordis, GPC

Patrick,

There were no finish line cameras for the RR (that I know of) just the CR.

Sorry to hear about how it went down but it sounds like everyone else knows you won as well.

SBO

Kieran-
You all went roaring past me just inside the K to go sign. I was the guy off to the left turning my pedals over so slowly that at one point a spectator past me walking up the hill using a walker. It really was pathetic. My tongue dragging on the pavement, my pride in tatters, I wasn't sure I could finish. It was still a fun race despite the results getting tangled up. I was a little leery after the McLane debacle with this SB timing people, but how can you screw it up with a chip system? Seems fool proof, but I guess not.

JM

pgordis wrote: Does anyone know how the race played out otherwise, who some of the other top finishers were?

Johnny GoFast wrote: I couldn't believe the pack, and more specifically Fast Track, didn't cover at that point and let that move go away. I'm happy that I played some factor in the deciding break.
JM

With my Webcor teammate down the road with you, I was sitting in the top 3 or 4 of the group blocking and doing my "well, looks like they're long gone" spiel. There were 2 Fasttrack, and Steven Romjue from Olympic at the front. I too was very surprised that the Fasttracks seemed to be taking equal pulls and seemed to have no designated leader.

After we started heading up Barloy canyon there we no real accelerations, just the race of attrition continued until there were 5 or 6 of us left as we hit the steps, with the last 1K just stretching us out a bit without really changing any positions. We were mixing in with the tail of the 30+ group so it was pretty confusing on the road; I didn't even notice that we passed you John.

I enjoyed the race, but am sorely disappointed in how the organization let us all down.

Yeah, something was mixed up in the Cat 4 women's field in the RR as well--my teammate won the race by over a minute and they have her bib number listed as the winning number...next to the name of the person who finished 18th! In this case, it seems that the bib numbers might have been correct, but just assigned to the wrong people.

Lots of different people have been emailing to try to straighten this out but to my knowledge, they're getting radio silence from the Sea Otter organizers.

Have any of you heard anything back?

Casey, if this teammate submitted this result for an upgrade and five people in her race were able to corroborate her story, would you consider it? Seriously, every single person seems to be off.

Hey Patrick-
If you are the dude on the yellow Mavic, I can attest to your protest. I am the John Mundelius of the Pegasus team that rode with you rather briefly. I was happy to see you join me and the Webcor guy in our attempt to breakaway. I was trying to put some time into some guy named "Barney" from the Fast Track team who was the designated leader and looked to be a pretty good climber. One of the Fast Track riders was rather cheesily trying to pump Barney up during the race so I figured I'd better go early and get a head start on the climb. Then you bridged up, took a couple of pulls and then rode off into the sunset leaving me and the Webcor guy whimpering like a couple of prep school girls after a heavy session with Antonio Banderas. Anyhow, great race. I couldn't believe the pack, and more specifically Fast Track, didn't cover at that point and let that move go away. I'm happy that I played some factor in the deciding break. I look forward to seeing you at future races and shaking your hand on a job well done. You know you won, and that's what counts. Now, back to the drawing board on how to win a finishing climb.

JM

Patrick,

The next best thing to getting recognized officially is getting recognized unofficially. Results screwups are too common and it's especially annoying when organizers slough it of as part of racing. Race fees should be held in escrow until accurate results are posted. :wink:

As I mentioned Sunday, I didn't video the finish to your race, but hopefully you'll get the medal you deserve.

For what it is worth, I saw you come by as well. My results from last year were messed up, but I didn't sweat it too much as I finished in the middle. I came back this year anyway in the hope that things would be better. The chance to race a bike on Laguna Seca was compelling, and I like the road course as well. You also get to see a lot of out of region faces as well.

I have heard that they used untested software last year. They seemed to be using a new vendor this year, maybe in an attempt to fix last years issue. Of course, the new vendor has already had a couple of mishaps this year.

Your comment about the unswept corners resonated with me. There were a couple of gnarly ones and I would just really wonder what was going on as they set up the course. When I work a race, I sweep the heck out of every corner, try to find all glass, etc. Maybe it is because I have eaten tarmac before, I don't want to be the one responsible for leaving a sandy corner in a race.

Many thanks to Dan Shore, Kieran, Ed Lee & Kirkpatrick MacMillan for helping to set the record straight. I greatly appreciate your imput! Thank you so much.

Now it seems the entire results posted online for the 40+ Cat 4 race are out of true. That means, in a sense, the race is ruined for all 100 of us who braved crashes, unswept corners and a tough course to give it our all, not to mention the hefty reg. fee. Yes, something is clearly rotten in the state of Sea Otter...

I've asked Casey if he has any ideas about trying to rectify, insofar as feasible, the results for our race. With an organization like Sea Otter, I have no idea whom to contact in the first place. Perhaps if a video exists of the finish, the results could somehow be reconstructed more accurately? But that presumes such a video exists and that someone would be willing to go to the trouble of trying to fix this results debacle. I just can't see that happening (if it's even possible now), but maybe the scope of this screw up will somehow make it possible to try to revise the results more accurately.

Does anyone know how the race played out otherwise, who some of the other top finishers were?

I also agree with some of the other posts about the Sea Otter event in general. This was the first and will certainly be the last year I race this event. However, I can't imagine enough riders will really skip this event the coming year in protest of the way the road racing portion (at least) is run and organized to put enough economic pressure on the event to improve its act. Many of the road events seemed full or nearly at their limits despite the high entry fees and I include myself in saying that P.T. Barnum's fundamental observation about mankind shows that for every one of us who skips this three ring circus of cycling next year, there's another rider/racer ready and eager to shell out $45+ and take our place.

Patrick Gordis

I'm friends with John Mundelius who you bridged up to when he was off the front with the Webcor rider. His recap of the race to me cooroborates your story as well. I believe he referred to you as an "obviously strong climber" who meant trouble for his strategy of trying to get some time on the climbers before the last hill. Sadly, it's become evident that we can't rely on placings to memorialize our hard efforts. It's all too common that they're screwed up. SBOnline managed to do a pretty horrific job at McClane too!! So maybe we won't see them doing many race timings in the future, or better yet maybe they'll learn from their mistakes and get better at it. Anyway, congrats on your win. A break away win like that is courageous and heroic! More people should try (hint hint), especially if they know they're not the strongest climber in a group of 30 (hint hint). Good job to Mundelius and the Webcor guy too for making a go of it too.

If they're going to charge a $45 reg. fee -- $10 over even the more expensive non-Sea Otter races -- then their race should be perfect. They shouldn't be severely screwing up the results. They shouldn't be cutting races short. They shouldn't be having avoidable problems. Period.

This is not the first such story I have heard regarding Sea Otter. Several members of our Team long ago decided to vote with our feet and not attend this event for various similar reasons.

Patrick,

Congrats on winning the race. Obviously the results are completely false. I got dropped on the 2nd or 3rd lap from the lead group and upon completing the 4th lap, they had moved the cones to steer everyone up to the finish. I told the marshall that I had another lap to go and he said that I was done, they were closing down the course and the results would be figured out at the finish.

I did not even bother to look at the results because I knew I got shelled and then I got a call on Sunday saying great finish from a friend of mine. The results have me as 2nd. I think I was more like 62nd.

Sorry for the confusion. Please let me know if I can do anything to help right the wrong here.

Ed Lee

Congratulations Patrick on your win, the last lap was fun.

Looking at the currently posted results, a team mate, Ed Lee, is listed in second. Ed has graciously corrected the record on the Alto Velo list
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/AltoVelo/message/9409. I strongly suspect that the rider currently listed as first suffered the same fate as Ed - based on my observations as I was sitting in 3rd/4th wheel of the peloton as we let the 3 man break head down the road, and looking up his recent results on usacycling.org (no offense intented).

My _guess_ is that if we remove 1st and 2nd from the current results, insert Patrick as 1st and move everyone else up one, we are _closer_ to the truth.

Apologies to anyone who I slighted with my recollections.

Kieran

BTW, a minor correction, to Patrick's account; it was Karl Ehlert that was the AVer in the 2-man break he bridged up to.

Hi Patrick -

I was in the 30+ Cat 4 field with Chris and I saw you go past. In fact, you were riding so strongly that we thought it was someone going for a hard break out of our own group! Great race -- you certainly deserve all the credit due to you.

The other issue with the race was that they didn't have a chip mat on the loop to verify whether riders completed the entire distance. A few teammates in your race caught riders on the final climb who had been dropped early on, bailed on the final lap, but still crossed the mat and were given a placing in the top 20!

Really, with chip timing and a hard uphill finish you would think that they could get the results correct and posted in a timely manner.

I hope you can get everything sorted out...

Dan Shore, ZTeam

Patrick,

I'm not suprised but am saddened by your plight. Of the three times I raced there(2000, 2001, 2002), I'm listed just once, and with the wrong finish time. I have yet to return as a competitor, but have driven down from Antioch for the vendors and Wheels of Thunder's Pasta Feed! :)

By the way, when is Lillian going to race again? I didn't see her name in the results at Sea Otter (another mistake perhaps?) or anywhere else this year.

George

Many thanks, Chris. I really appreciate your taking the time to corroborate my account on this forum!

As has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, I believe, there does not seem to exist a mechanism for redressing problems and mistakes like this after the fact. There is a very narrow window of time in which one could potentially draw a problem to the attention of the officials, but at a mass, chaotic event like Sea Otter I see almost no realistic chance of that happening anyway. As you point out, even if I had been on the spot several hours later, I would have needed to somehow locate the right official probably somewhere far off within 15 minutes and then another huge delay would have doubtless ensued.

I am assuming a finish camera video exists showing my finish place along with my timing chip data, but for whatever reason it seems this can't be reviewed later (or so I gather).

Good luck to everyone this season. If you think you have a result, I guess you need to be prepared to "fight for it" tooth and nail!

Patrick

Patrick,

I can definitely back up your story, as can my entire team. We were at the front of the 30+ race when you came by on your solo breakaway and I recognized you since you beat me in the sprint at Ward's Ferry.

You were definitely the only 40+ rider to pass our group.

I didn't see your results, but I was determined to wait there until they posted and finalized the 30+ results since they seemed to be having lots of problems. There were no protests in either of our races, but nobody from the 40+race showed up for the awards presentation.

The awards presentations for our races were over 3 hours after we finished, and I ended up standing around for those 3 hours and missing dinner with my grandparents.

I hope you get this straightened out and get the credit & the points you deserve.

Chris