race is a go.

https://new.sportsbaseonline.com/events/index.xhtml?categoryId=4524&conv...

zvalmart wrote:Is there any update on whether this race will happen on May 3rd, or is it still tentative?

Thanks

Looks like it's a go, unless something unexpected happens. Race flyer will probably be up tomorrow, not sure when registration will open up but it will be asap.

Is there any update on whether this race will happen on May 3rd, or is it still tentative?

Thanks

charcyclist wrote:How about simply an open women's field at sonora? Or a 2,3,4 group? I would love to race this race, and it seems like women's categories are on the chopping block a lot lately -- Fresno crit and J mendes crit both are lacking them.

Yeah that is unfortunate and it's not something that I think any promoter is happy about. I've gone with a womens 3/4 field. If I do an open field, or a 2/3/4 field I just feel like none of the 3/4's will show up. It's going to be really tight financially on this race, if it happens at all, so I really can't afford to have a field with 5 riders in it, but I also didn't want to completely shut out the women if at all possible so this is the best I think I can do.

How about simply an open women's field at sonora? Or a 2,3,4 group? I would love to race this race, and it seems like women's categories are on the chopping block a lot lately -- Fresno crit and J mendes crit both are lacking them.

rosco wrote:I hear Eric from VP wants to get a Fort Ord Stage Race going. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112004809886980191127.000453ac402b768e94ff7&t=h&z=13

fun!

All of the mens fields at Madera sold out this year, and those of us who didn't get enough stage racing have to drive up to Oregon or down to So Cal to get our fix.

I think most of us in Nor Cal would love another stage race.

I hear Eric from VP wants to get a Fort Ord Stage Race going. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112004809886980191127.000453ac402b768e94ff7&t=h&z=13

Local stage race, yes!

Copperoppolis road race is only about 30 minutes from this race, and this race may actually be closer for some people. Copper attracts a huge field. It has been around a long time and that is a big reason, but it's also a more difficult course than the Sonora road race will be with significantly worse pavement.

On the other hand there were something like five bicycle racing events on the day of Cantua Creek and three on the day of Pine Flat in Northern California, and the weather was pretty horrendous for driving from where I was on the day of Pine Flat, even though it was pretty mild at the event.

Thanks guys, hoping to have my categories and flyer finalized this weekend and get it over to Casey for Approval. I do have to focus on the cats that will pay the bills and I think everyone will understand. I've got some ideas to turn this into a stage race...is there much interest in having another opportunity to do a stage race? I've got all the courses figured out, it would just be a matter of getting approval (starting with the road race this year!).

ZebraMan wrote:Some comparison numbers to consider:

I think it's quite clear that the following categories are necessary: 35+4/5, Elite 4, 45/55+ 1-4, and probably Elite 5 (much as I philosophically oppose having novice 5's race road races - blah, blah, blah). Those are the cat's who pay the bills. They were the first to sell out at Snelling as well.

The rest of the cat's serve non-economic interests like diversity, opportunity, etc...

I am not claiming that this isn't relevant, but it's possible that the different time of the racing season is relevant, too. If the beginner categories are more excited about racing (and driving to race) at the start of the (long) season, then a May race may not be so reliant on those categories (not that I've taken the time to look at the numbers).

Some comparison numbers to consider:

Pine Flat Road Race 2009
Cat1/2 Women, Field 2
Cat Pro/1/2 Men, Field 9
Cat4/5 Men 45+ Master, Field 18
Cat4/5 Men 35+ Master, Field 26
Cat1/2/3 Men 45+ Master, Field 8
Cat1/2/3 Men 35+ Master, Field 12
Master Men 55+, Field 10
Master Women 35+, Field 5
Cat1/2/3 Men, Field 2
Cat 5 Men, Field 14
Cat 4 Men, Field 44
Cat 4 Women, Field 6
Cat 3 Men, Field 19
Cat 3 Women, Field 6

Cantua Creek Road Race 2009
Cat Pro/1/2 Men, Field 4
Master 45+ 4/5, Field 41
Master 35+ 4/5, Field 44
Master 35+ 1/2/3, Field 17
Master 45+, Field 28
Women 35+, Field 7
Junior Men 10-18, Field 1
Cat 5 Men, Field 20
Women 4, Field 16
Cat 4 Men, Field 29
Cat 3 Men, Field 31
Cat 3 Women, Field 5

Orosi RR2008
Cat 1/2/Pro, Field 9
Cat 3, Field 8
Cat 4, Field 27
Cat 5, Field 18
Master 35+ 1/2/3, Field 3
Master 35+ 4/5, Field 35
Master 45+, Field 17
Master 55+, Field 15
Women 1/2, Field 3
Women 3/4, Field 12

I think it's quite clear that the following categories are necessary: 35+4/5, Elite 4, 45/55+ 1-4, and probably Elite 5 (much as I philosophically oppose having novice 5's race road races - blah, blah, blah). Those are the cat's who pay the bills. They were the first to sell out at Snelling as well.

The rest of the cat's serve non-economic interests like diversity, opportunity, etc...

Best of luck. I'll see you there, even if I have to race in a wig and falsies. (I should probably shave ...)

Tripp wrote:7 fields would be a field every 1.9 miles. At 22.5 mph, a mile will take 2:40. At 25 mph, a mile is about 2:25. That means your fields are going to be about 4.5 to 5 minutes apart. If the first group of the day is averaging 22.5 mph, that means that group will finish its first lap about 35 minutes after starting. That in turn means that with five minute gaps, field 7 will go off 30 minutes after the first group, and five minutes ahead of that first group on the course. I wouldn't want to cut it any tighter than that.

As for which fields, I'd suggest 3, 4, 5, Masters 1/2/3, Masters 4, a Womens 3/4 field or just a 4 field. If you need to maximize revenue (and it sounds like if you have to pay for a lot of CHP traffic control, revenue may be an issue), then a 45+ 4 field will also probably fill. If revenue is not as big of an issue, I'd think about a P/1/2 field or a Womens 1/2 field.

SGW eliminated its P/1/2 field at Bariani after getting only 17 P/1/2 riders the first year, 12 of whom could have entered the Masters 1/2/3 race. Of course, for the past few years, Bariani has been up against an NRC race to the south. This year it is up against Hanford Crit with its $3,000 purse for the Pro/1/2 field.

Good advice from everyone. I've been trying to calculate when the first group would come around and possibly catch the last group. I did however figure that if I did a women's group last and it was the smallest group..by the time it got caught it would be fragmented enough that it wouldn't be an issue and get in the way.

As far as Bariani, I like that couse but I won't be attending this year due to no P1/2 field either, but it seems like you guys do very well without it. I don't want to offer just a P1/2 field at my race because I don't think it will fill...only about 20 showed for Wards ferry last year.

I got over one hurdle today, Got my registration/staging location ok'd.

I will apologize to the ladies in advance if i'm unable to do those categories, like has been said, it's a first year event and i can't lose my shorts trying to please everyone.

Tripp wrote:
SGW eliminated its P/1/2 field at Bariani after getting only 17 P/1/2 riders the first year, 12 of whom could have entered the Masters 1/2/3 race. Of course, for the past few years, Bariani has been up against an NRC race to the south. This year it is up against Hanford Crit with its $3,000 purse for the Pro/1/2 field.

But SGW also added the W4 field after I asked (and promised it would fill). That was three years ago and the W4 filed has sold out and been wait-listed every year.

Thank you SGW!!!

7 fields would be a field every 1.9 miles. At 22.5 mph, a mile will take 2:40. At 25 mph, a mile is about 2:25. That means your fields are going to be about 4.5 to 5 minutes apart. If the first group of the day is averaging 22.5 mph, that means that group will finish its first lap about 35 minutes after starting. That in turn means that with five minute gaps, field 7 will go off 30 minutes after the first group, and five minutes ahead of that first group on the course. I wouldn't want to cut it any tighter than that.

As for which fields, I'd suggest 3, 4, 5, Masters 1/2/3, Masters 4, a Womens 3/4 field or just a 4 field. If you need to maximize revenue (and it sounds like if you have to pay for a lot of CHP traffic control, revenue may be an issue), then a 45+ 4 field will also probably fill. If revenue is not as big of an issue, I'd think about a P/1/2 field or a Womens 1/2 field.

SGW eliminated its P/1/2 field at Bariani after getting only 17 P/1/2 riders the first year, 12 of whom could have entered the Masters 1/2/3 race. Of course, for the past few years, Bariani has been up against an NRC race to the south. This year it is up against Hanford Crit with its $3,000 purse for the Pro/1/2 field.

ZebraMan wrote:I will not be so bold nor reckless as to opine which groups those are and are not.

Velogirl wrote:Jess, are you suggesting no women's or E5 fields? tsk, tsk!

Lorri, Lorri, Lorri .... you pierce my core with your pointed tsk'ing.
I was making no suggestion of particular fields to delete, limit or expand. I was just trying to help a new race stay viable.

In fact, I am still one of the few remaining zealots who stubbornly maintains hope that women will pre-reg for races rather than keep promoters hanging while they wait for a fair weather report.

I belieeeeeeeeeeeve, sister!!!!

Jess, are you suggesting no women's or E5 fields? tsk, tsk!

seriously, as a promoter, you choose which fields to promote. you will definitely have critics no matter which fields you choose. but Jess gives good advice, as a new race, if you don't want to lose money, then pick the fields that will fill.

good luck to you and thanks for stepping up to promote a race!

Lorri

Best of luck, my friend. Way to step up!!
I agree that you need to choose the fields well. I'd suggest for this first-year event that your chioce of fields:

1. Targets the maximum populations of racers in the region (to keep your event afloat);
2. Targets people who live in the central valley region or who will drive for a RR (check the numbers for Pine Flats, Orosi, Cantua, etc...);
3. Targets people who will pre-reg (and not leave you stressed out and on the hook until race day); and
4. Targets groups who are less likely to fragment.

I will not be so bold nor reckless as to opine which groups those are and are not.

GFMeilahn wrote:Eight fields on a 13.3 mile loop may be a bit much, especially if the course is challenging enough to fragment peletons (and I suspect it is). This would make scoring placing much more difficult, necessitating selecting experienced officials, and there's equipment that may not be available. Priorties for both officials and equipment go to races that were on the annual calendar at the beginning of the year. But it's still possible; I tip my hat for your efforts and wish you the best.

Exacly my concerns. The good news is that it was an open date so I don't have to worry about priority, that is why I'm trying to make this race happen on a short time frame. I agree on the number of groups being a stretch and I may have to cut it down to 6 or 7. The groups will fragment for sure. Because of that I will have to lean towards the categories I know will fill, I can't have a field that may only have 10 riders in it. CHP did not give me good news when I spoke to them last week, hoping it goes better at the planning meeting!

Eight fields on a 13.3 mile loop may be a bit much, especially if the course is challenging enough to fragment peletons (and I suspect it is). This would make scoring placing much more difficult, necessitating selecting experienced officials, and there's equipment that may not be available. Priorties for both officials and equipment go to races that were on the annual calendar at the beginning of the year. But it's still possible; I tip my hat for your efforts and wish you the best.

you will find that you are likely to get a better turnout for a women's cat 4 race than a 3/4 race.

ok everyone, give me your feedback on this setup. The course is 13.3 mile loop and I need to do 1 wave. I feel the 3's is the only group getting the short end but the 4's will be well served and I could possibly do a 2nd cat 5 group. This course is similar to Wards Ferry and actually shares one half mile stretch with that course so i'm comparing categories and turn out. Looks like there was only 5 P1/2 women last year and zero pre reg'd so far this year..could leave that category out and add a 45+ 4's. this is going to be a first year race so I need to feel it out a bit this year and make changes accordingly for next year.

P1/2/3
45+1-4
35+ 4
5's
4's
35+ 1/2/3
women 1/2
women 3/4

Throwing a 45+ 4's back into 10-yr younger racers would be the same as throwing the 35+ 4's back into the open-4's.

Treat with respect, and make the same fair option:

35+ 1-4
45+ 1-4

Maybe even 45+ 4's with the 55+ masters?

Would be also like pushing this issue even lower: 1-4's

I'm listening.

If you need to cut down the number of groups, you might consider offering M45+ 1-4 instead of the two 45+ groups. 45+ 1-4 will get a good turnout. The 45+ 4's might not like it so much, but they can also choose the 35+ 4 group which shouldn't be too bad.

However you end up doing it, THANKS!

another item from previous discussions:
avoid combined fields that are picked separately

Considering that there has been a ton of debate on the matter, 5's race with 5's and no exceptions. The suggested 45+ 4/5 would be an example of a field that many have opposed.

I would recommend:
Cat 5, perhaps an A and B race if the first field fills.
Elite 4
35+ Cat 4 (keep it Cat 4 so that you can run a full field and more Masters 4s will have a chance to race).
Elite 3
Masters 35+ 1/2/3 (or maybe 2/3)
Masters 45+ 1/2/3
Masters 45+ 4/5 and Masters 55+ open, run together but picked separately.

Women E4
Women E3
Women Masters 35+ 3/4
Women 1/2

Might also consider some Junior fields, or decide support Juniors or support Women if time is an issue. If you can run a little of both that is probably a good thing. Remember, you won't please everyone, so be prepared for complaints.

Ron