I've decided to abandon the "Crazy P" next year. The second loop will be expanded around the parking lot or around the church block. Hopefully the Downtown will agree.
With 8 corners in .5-.6 miles, it will still be one of the most technical courses around, and great for the spectators.

For 2010, the Napa River Velo Gran _rix

p.s. - The complete '09 GP race results were submitted to the NCNCA shortly after the race, but apparently in the wrong format in Excel. I have been trying to use the Sportsbase software to rectify the problem, but I consistently get an error message. Attempts to inquire of this with SB have been fruitless. So thanks to all for your patience for results, which has been greater than my own.

p.p.s. - Check out the new crit ("The Cycle Circus") in South Napa on the calendar for Sunday, August 9th!! It will be a 1.4 mile pentagonal course with a long sprint. Very family-friendly. Based on the very positive reviews of the "Reverse Win & Out" from the Gran Prix, I plan to offer that successive-sprint format for both the Pro/1/2 and Elite 3 races. (Thus the Circus)
Thank you Zenn Racing Team for helping to open this new battlefield.

It was a great race. I liked the challenge but I like the flow of the Hanford Crit a little better - fast and technical, but with less slow down. I raced the 3's race and there were a ton of crashes as expected, but don't care so much about that - the flow and technicality of the race are more important. For the pros, i could see keeping the P turn, all others might like something else.

I agree with surfvivor - its a fine venue, and I especially enjoyed my after race meal and beer at the Downtown Joe’s Brewery & Restaurant while watching the 45’s suffer.

I say put barrier in there and force a dismount before the P.
Maybe a double barrier so riders don't try to bunny hop it.

Ron

As a testament to the 35 +3's race, I will speak as perhaps the solo crasher. I skipped a pedal and went down. It was a mistake on my behalf, I know how to avoid these situations and didn't. I came out with a pair of broken bars, a thrashed left shifter and a small amount of road rash. My teammate won the race which is always a plus. The registration was slow, the official was not familiar with the rules and the fields were generally small.

Not a great experience for me personally and will not be looking to return.

http://hcphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/7830962_2TfEY/1/507275698_ZN96k/Medium

JP

Personally I love this race and to think that the course should be changed to make some people feel as if they are in a safer race is a joke. Part of bike racing is bike handling and strategy and those things definitely play out on this course. I was in the 35+ 4's race and I don't think there was a crash. Although even when I was the 3rd or 5th rider through the turn I could not believe how much braking and last second line changes were being made. Or that some thought is appropriate to try gain places just before the turn.

I was warming up by the turn on my trainer and saw many people go down and I thought, "This is an accepted risk that I am taking." And much of the time the course doesn't matter. Last year at the Wente Crit there were some hideous crashes and we all know how "safe" that course appears to be. And, why does this same discussion come up every year? There is this attitude or belief that there are safe courses or that Cat 1-3 are too good to crash. Look at all of the crashing in pro races. How about Levi crossing Lance's wheel while on a straight road as one of the many examples? I would rather crash going 15mph though the P turn than go down at a industrial park at 30.

Also, how many crits are held in a downtown area? They seem to be a thing of the past and I think that we should do everything possible to attend them and the merchants in the area. Thanks for bringing this race to us.

The weather is one thing I didn't consider. If an extra loop was added I would still come out and race in the rain. But the P-turn in wet weather would mean running 80psi in the front tire or something silly like that. I'd probably still race but I'd think twice about it.

charcyclist wrote:I think taking it around the parking lot and then back onto the finishing street would still make it a short, fun, but complicated sprint. Someone mentioned that you have to be in the top three to contend and that would still be the case.

That's probably true. It'd be real short to the line. What about just extending the course to include 5th st and finish on Main?

rmmiller wrote:Justin the field sprinter...ha. Soon I'll be complaining that not enough races end with hillclimbs.

Don't forget... field sprints give the leadout guys a chance to shine as well. That last 5k is adrenaline overload even if you don't have the wattage cottage.

It's a fun turn but pedal clipping seemed to happen every lap in the women's race ... which triggered 2 pile ups.

I think taking it around the parking lot and then back onto the finishing street would still make it a short, fun, but complicated sprint. Someone mentioned that you have to be in the top three to contend and that would still be the case.

There was a crash in the Maters 1/2/3 race going into the P turn at 10 to go. I was involved in the crash late in the Masters 1/2/3 race (the early one) went to take my free lap and was told that the free lap was 12. My race was over! My one complaint is that was not annouced at the beginning of the race. If it was announced, no one heard it. I think that should have really been clearly announced. Other than that I love the course and will be back next year.

Thanks, Chris and Justin and everyone else who responds to this discussion. I'd really like to know. I think it's inevitable that there will be a change. Shawn actually had a very interesting point about the "P." Her said that a hairpin (like Brisbane's) is one thing, because everyone slows and accepts that it's a slow drift. The width and shape of the P make it possible, but dangerous, to take at speed -- especially given the way the P tucks in on the underside of the corner for an even steeper angle. I personally think it's a very interesting challenge, and one that gives you a slight shot of anxiety on every lap as you set up for the turn. But I'm ambivalent about continuing it because of: the history of wheel washouts there; the perception of danger or difficulty that may be keeping my our field sizes low; the disasterous implications of rain or heat on the slipperiness of that turn.

Perhaps another alternative is to include the P for the pro race, but extend the race around the parking lot for the earlier fields. Hmmm....

As for the reverse win & out, I think that one is here to stay. The tactics of that race were AMAZING!!! Each of the final eight or nine laps had everyone's rapt attention. I just couldn't believe it when Hennings and Buckley sprinted for 4th and Buckley got gapped, thus opening the door for the peloton (and Laberge) to take the win! TREMENDOUS!!! Dean told me after the race that he was waiting to jump the last guy in the five-man break on the final lap when he'd be riding alone. It would have been interesting to see if Dean could have bridged up to Joel Robertson. I frankly can't wait to run the format again next year.

Don't be surprised if next year we offer two or even three track-style formats. A modification of last year's points race for next year's 3's, perhaps?

Please continue to respond. I want this race to evolve into one that best suits the crit tifosi (afficiandos)(crazies).

Jess, thanks for the fine job in putting on this race! The location was great and it was fun to race on such a short loop. Other than the crashes, something we hate to see at any race, I say it was an outstanding event. Too bad many of the field sizes were small.

The P turn didn't seem particularly dangerous, especially after a few laps, but after seeing Shawn go down right in front of me and breaking his femur I don't know. I really think it was just a freak thing that the fall was so bad because it was at a relatively slow speed.

The reverse win & out was an interesting concept, might be fun to try on a different course. I thought we had LaBerge beat once we had a 5 man break off the front, but as guys were getting tired and sprinting for 5th & 4th all it took was 1 guy to get caught to give the field sprinters a chance.

Justin the field sprinter...ha. Soon I'll be complaining that not enough races end with hillclimbs.

I say keep the race exactly as it is. I love the P-turn. Along with Land Park's chicane, it's probably the most fun cornering you can do. The constant acceleration out of that turn takes its toll on riders throughout..I think the real reason there isnt a field sprint is most likely because only like 20 guys even finished the race.

Finally, I dont think anyone would claim that the Memorial Day Crit's final corner is "dangerous." It is as wide open as you can get. However, one of the more gruesome crashes we've all seen in the P/1/2 happened there. My point is, crashes happen in crits...some days more than others...and there is really no way of judging where they'll happen. But don't go making your race another 4-corner meatheadfest because crashes happen...they'll happen regardless.

We still had crashes in the P/1/2. They're pretty much inevitable from a fluid dynamics standpoint. And one guy decided to stand up and try to get back on his bike in the apex of the turn. That sort of thing is probably also inevitable, from a bell curve of intelligence standpoint.

I think the race is great as it is, but would be improved if we instead rode a CCW loop around the parking lot and turned right into the finishing lane. The race would remain very technical but the pace would be much smoother and faster. I also think the course would still lend itself to successful breaks. It would resemble Hanford I think.

The biggest thing the P takes away from the race is the finish. You can't have a decent field sprint when the first 3 riders that go into the turn are the only 3 contenders at the line.

Overall it's a fun race. And it's always cool when a promoter asks for feedback, so thanks again.

I don't believe there were any crashes in the 35+ 3 race.