To expand on what Tom has said, (and Casey has been suggesting to me and other promoters) pre-reg enables a more appropriate number of officials, and for staffing for registration, more blue rooms if needed, more sponsor interest, perhaps more prizes and primes, maybe even allowance for an added field or prize split, and improved accuracy because the organizers are better able to electronically organize rider info.

And if fields fill before race day there will be fewer frustrated riders showing up on race day to find out they are put on a waiting list or don't get to race.

I want to agree with Warren about charging a higher surcharge for race-day entries. I suggested this a few times in past years. In a nutshell, life is much smoother when riders pre-reg. Results/rider lists are better, errant rider rider info is more likely to be fixed, the organizer can put resources in the right places etc.

Having a large part of entries come on race day imposes time costs on the organizer, and lessens the amount of info that the organizer and officials have for allocating resources. If increasing the charge for day-of-race entries can shift that slightly, then it would be a good thing.

Unless they get placed mysteriously on the lapped rider list, like several riders did at Merco who were not lapped.

Ron, remember this energy at your next race, because the guy at the front with his hands in the air won't be missed by the officals. :-)

Oh yeah, I'll just camp out all friggen day to watch you only post 10 deep and tell us the rest will be posted on the web...weeks later.
Only to find everyone behind me was placed but you somehow missed the guy who intentionally got as close to the camera and officials as possible (knowing that I am small and get missed).

Whatever!

BTW: The EMC/Vellum Cycles crit will have women's 3/4 and Juniors.

We are trying to give a little to everyone.

Although results will be posted in September, we will mail you your prize. ENJOY!

The significant difference is that a promoter knows the 5's and 35+ 123 will show up. With the women it's sometimes a guess, and the pre-reg numbers don't suggest optimism. As of now, those pre-reg numbers look just like those of races where 15 women show up, or 45+.

The Jesster wrote:I realize that I'm merging at least three threads with this comment, but I have to point something out about pre-reg:

Quote:Brisbane Highlands Circuit Race - 3/31/07

EMen 2/3 - 17
EMen 4 - 57
EMen 5 - 10
EWomen - 2
MMen 1/2/3 - 7
MMen 4 - 44
MMen 5 - 14
MMen 45 - 26

Sierra Point Criterium - 4/1/07

EMen 2/3 - 21
EMen 4 - 48
EMen 5 - 6
EWomen 4 - 1
MMen 1/2/3 - 6
MMen 4 - 26
MMen 5 - 8
MMen 45 - 17

What is the most significant observation one can make about the pre-reg numbers Tom just gave us for Brisbane? I observed the same trend at Cherry Pie, at it inevitably contribute to some of the decisions we made about the fields.

The women aren't pre-registering.

Egads! Tom should be worried about the Men 5 and Master 1/2/3. They didn't pre-reg either! They might be afraid of the rain.

Put the coffee down Jess, the race is still over 2 weeks away.

For what its worth, Menlo Park and Bariani look to have sold out in Pre-reg for women 4.

Please don't check in with the officials immediately after your finish. If everyone did that the results would get delayed. Also please don;t come to the officials right after your race and ask for your race placing. Again this just slows down the results process for everyone. The proper thing to do is wait near where the results will be posted and as soon as the results are posted verify that you have been properly placed.

$10 fee for day of race registration, or more. If online reg is being used then the race-day weather is known before the close of pre-reg.

For a $5 fee many people don't care about pre-registering if there's no threat of the field filling.

Don't assume field sizes based on number of license holders.

Hello? We can be selective and state that the women aren't pre-registering, but we should also look at the men's numbers -- they're not pre-registering either. With on-line registration, what's my motivation to pre-register unless I think the field will fill? And if I can see the pre-reg numbers, I know when a field is close to filling. W3 fields never fill. W4 fields occassionally fill. And Tom's race is still three weeks away!

I think lots of folks wait until the last minute because there are so many things that can happen between now and race-day. Heck, if I race this weekend and crash, or I get sick, or fall in love and move to Figi, the promoter probably won't refund my $25 so why should I pre-reg?

ps -- Menlo Park filled the Women's 4 race and there were 30 women in the Women's 3 race. Those aren't $-losing numbers. Yeah, having 100 guys in a field will yield additional income, but having 30 women in a race doesn't technically lose money. And Bariani has 49 women 4 registered!!! Could one more woman register so we can sell that sucker out? So it's clear to me that CAT4 women will support CAT4-only races....

Ron -- rather then get angry, here's a suggestion for you. You're a little guy (not a slam). Many little women have the same issue -- they're seemingly invisible to the finish-line camera. If you know that's true, get in the habit of checking with the officials after crossing the line or immediately when results are posted. I might also recommend you call out your number when you cross the line. Because your number is lower in the camera's field of vision, I can understand how you've been missed, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get placed.

I realize that I'm merging at least three threads with this comment, but I have to point something out about pre-reg:

Quote:Brisbane Highlands Circuit Race - 3/31/07

EMen 2/3 - 17
EMen 4 - 57
EMen 5 - 10
EWomen - 2
MMen 1/2/3 - 7
MMen 4 - 44
MMen 5 - 14
MMen 45 - 26

Sierra Point Criterium - 4/1/07

EMen 2/3 - 21
EMen 4 - 48
EMen 5 - 6
EWomen 4 - 1
MMen 1/2/3 - 6
MMen 4 - 26
MMen 5 - 8
MMen 45 - 17

What is the most significant observation one can make about the pre-reg numbers Tom just gave us for Brisbane? I observed the same trend at Cherry Pie, at it inevitably contribute to some of the decisions we made about the fields.

The women aren't pre-registering.

For Cherry Pie we had something like six women preregistered three days before the race. I think 76 showed up once the sun came out.

The point is: Promoters are being asked to take a leap of faith to expand womens' field availability, but many female racers appear to be very selective and dilatory about commiting to our races aforehand. Which causes big losses to the clubs if the weather turns poor, and gives the promoters a gigantic headache and anxiety before race day (which does not encourage a repeat occurance the following year).

How are the organizers of the summer crits (currently meeting to prepare their race flyers) going to react when they see 1 or 2 preregistrants for the spring races when the 4's are nearly sold out?

So to merge the threads completely, before there are complaints about the field distributions at Cherry Pie and Cats Hill, the women should take Lorri's advice and become accustomed to preregistering.

So now there are two constructive suggestions for improving the plight of the W3's: Introduce your generous sponsors to the race promoters, and demonstrate your commitment by preregistering.

Zebraman

Great! I come across the line 3 feet from the camera and right where the judges should be able to see me and you still can't manage to get me in the results.

That does it, no more mister nice guy and giving the refs space to figure things out. Nope! I gonna come bug the crap out of you.

Ron (who always seems to get missed)

WarrenG wrote:We can't expect roadieforlife to go back to the EB's for mentoring. I think if people learn that race results beyond the top 20 will show up as "field" then that alone will help reduce the bad behavior.I would hope we are doing it right here (always the optimist). I do quite a bit of mentoring throughout the year plan on adding "meaningful placing vs. risk" and "passing responsibilities" to my repituar.

Sorry, I did miss your point. I should have paid more attention to your suggestion about educating riders about what's safe vs. meaningful. So how do we do that? We can't expect roadieforlife to go back to the EB's for mentoring. I think if people learn that race results beyond the top 20 will show up as "field" then that alone will help reduce the bad behavior.

WarrenG wrote:Should we instead have all 30-50 guys sprinting? You know how much more congested things are once you get outside the top 10 or so in most bunch sprints. Imagine the fun if it's 30-50 guys sprinting instead of just 20.I believe you missed the point, I'm agreeing with you. The fact of the matter is that not all competitors are going to be on the same page and I'm suggesting more education towards "beginners" on whose responsibility it is to pass safely and when it really "matters".

A number of the fields at Menlo Park filled before the close of Pre-Reg as it was this year. By next year even more fields will fill before Pre-Reg closes. Just because of this the race will practically be pre-reg only. Look at BErkeley Team Time Trial. This is a pre-entry only race, especially when Reg fills over a week before the event like it already has.

Back when I was a junior a number of larger Crits were pre-entry only. This allowed promoters to produce a race program which included start lists with rider race numbers and club Info. Having a race program with this type of info is something I haven't seen in years.

yeah, we were too busy giving out t-shirts and kisses!

we've learned lots of valuable lessons this year. our rookie crew did well, but we can do better next year and we've already taken notes/feedback to improve the process.

thanks for your patience everyone.

Lorri

ps -- it doesn't help having a perfectionist working on results now. I could go crazy trying to fix everything.....

I don't think it's practical to expect all entries to be pre-reg for a race like this, but for championship events riders know far enough in advance if they'll be there and rain isn't a factor for anyone.

It sounds like just a bit more time at registration would have reduced these problems. The person doing the registration checks for elegible handwriting, compares the license number on the form with the one on the rider's license, and checks that the team name on the form matches what is on the license. If any of these things are wrong the rider will correct it then.

None of which helps VeloGirl at the moment... :-(

VeloGirl - Make your life easier next year. Pre-entry only, no day of race registration. This might reduce your total entries by a little but it sounds like in the end it would make your life a lot easier.

My two picks:
We want everyone (at least listed as finishing, if it is after 20th then stating "Pack" or "Field" is fine).
That covers the accuracy.

We want relatively fast and understand there can be circumstances that slow things down.

Why do we want everyone? Because our team name sponsors pop up from the results when we Google their name.
That adds value to the sponsorship. Jerseys mean nothing, internet search results and visibility mean a lot more to a marketing department.

Ron
EMC/Vellum Cycles Marketing Firm/Cycling Team

Here are a couple more suggestions for racers. I've been trying to finish the Menlo Park results all week (probably 30 hours of work so far).

Register online! It's almost impossible to read some racers' hand-writing. Online registration also gives the promoter a database of racer information for each field (eliminating the need to re-type everything).

Make sure your SBO profile is complete and correct. Especially important are team name and license number. One of the things that's taken so much time this week is manually entering this information because it's not on your SBO profile.

If you register on-site, make sure to complete your entry form accurately and completely. Even better, type & print the USAC entry form at home -- then there's no question about being able to read the form. If we can't read your name, we'll reference your license number. If you don't enter your license number (or we can't read it), it's almost impossible for us to assign a person to a race number.

Know your team name. This is the name that your club registered with USAC and NCNCA. If you want BAR/BAT results, you need the correct team name. I can't tell you how many iterations (and spellings) of various team names I've seen. If you don't know your club/team name, look at your race license or ask your club representative.

Since the same set of results will be used for NCNCA (BAR/BAT) and USAC (national rankings system), it's necessary for us to have complete, correct information before we post the results. As others have mentioned, they would rather have accurate results posted the first time, rather than multiple versions of corrected results.

Results
1)you want everyone
2)you want fast
3)you want no errors....
choose two

BINGO!

MS

At SBO we try to give everyone a place...to our detriment most times!

The rough part of doing results is the need for instant gratification. If I had a penny for everytime a group of riders has come to the back of the trailer and asked me for their placing while their same category was still finishing I would be far more well to do.

If you want perfect (or close too) results here are some suggestions from a guy who deals with this stuff every week.

If the officials were not so rushed to pump out the top money placings everyone would get a place and errors would all but disapear.

If riders would check the results at the event when posted and not days later errors could be quickly fixed.

Learn number placement! Your race bible will tell you where and how...there is a reason for this info.

Never sit up at the finishline....when you sit up your arms go at your side and cover the numbers.

Try politely pointing out errors instead of swearing/freaking out/ tossing a tantrum.

If you are a lap down do not jump in the sprint finish! Practice elsewhere!

Remember PEOPLE do the resuts and PEOPLE are prone to errors...until you have sat on the stage and tried to write down a pack of 60 riders going 30mph across the line do not assume it is easy.

The officials had it tuff at Merco...We processed almost 680 results in less than 20min due to the way the groups finish on top of each other. In addition there were 5 cat 3 lapped riders in the final sprint.... the 35+ 1,2,3,4 came crashing into the back of the 3/4 ladies... and riders were going back and forth across the line eight and nine times.

Should everyone get a place...that is what I would like to have happen...should you sprint for 62nd place...that is up to you...but next time you are in the top 10 think back to the last race when you were 89th...take a deep breath...relax....and let the officials have some time to do their job before you come and ask where you finished.

Results
1)you want everyone
2)you want fast
3)you want no errors....
choose two

SanJoCycle wrote: "Empirical evidence seems to suggest that "coasting in" has its hazards;

It's only hazardous if bozos are trying to sprint past. Otherwise, coasting in is safer-more control, better vision, lower speed...

SanJoCycle wrote: "What "matters" and what is a "meaningful place" is a matter of opinion. "

The first 20 or so guys are sprinting. The next 30 are just coasting, rolling to the line, and one or two guys are sprinting from 30th, weaving in and out of the other riders just so they can pass 10 guys who are barely pedaling. How is that meaningful? It certainly doesn't indicate anything about their fitness or racing ability. It does indicate their regard for their fellow racers.

Should we instead have all 30-50 guys sprinting? You know how much more congested things are once you get outside the top 10 or so in most bunch sprints. Imagine the fun if it's 30-50 guys sprinting instead of just 20.

Casey, ask the riders in these fields... P/1/2, W1/2, 35+1/2/3, 45+, E3.

The rest aren't as likely to have figured out safety vs. what's meaningful. What is it that a significant number of the riders in these fields seem to know that many of the others don't?

And aren't many of those emails about results from people who want their name included if everyone else's name will be, and that it should say 39th and not 47th? Just post the top 20 or so and you won't hear from the person in 47th who is "missing" from the results or in the wrong place. You'll help put an end to that frustration.

So for everyone who thinks it is OK to drop deep or complete results. which one of you fine people can I forward all the complaints I get from riders who don't show up in the results, or all the results I'll start to get if we stop producing full results. Maybe it is a long time racers vs short time racer thing but lots of people want to see their name in the results no matter how far down in the placings they are. Each year I get lots of emails from riders who are disappointed when they don't show up in the results for what ever reason.

I think one good way to start driving people out of the sport would be to stop producing full results.

WarrenG wrote:There aren't many accidents back in the bunch of sprints among riders of the higher categories because they know there is no point is weaving in and out of other riders just so they can see their name in 26th place instead of 36th. Posting those places certainly encourages bad behavior more than it discourages bad behavior.

But even a crash once in awhile is still stupid and uneeded. Last year I was taken down and suffered a fractured scapula because of two lower category riders in a 45+ race who were sprinting for places that didn't matter as I was coasting in.

If you're not in for a meaningful place then just coast in. Knowing the results won't show those meaningless places will encourage that safer behavior.

Who is going to defend the back of the pack sprinters from this elitist BS? I guess I am.

First...not just this post...all this category bashing...oh please! I made it through many years of 4s & 3s racing and had my first RR crash when I was sucked into a yard sale caused by an (ahem) aggro masters Cat 1. At least swervy riders are easy to spot...you don't know when a normally relatively stable geezer is going to be all irritable on his bike because he just found out his BMW needs a $1300 fuel pump or god knows what.

Or when he's going to sit up in the middle of a field sprint! I am befuddled by people who ride through a whole $#%& road race and don't even sprint in the 14 seconds that the whole event is all leading up to. I personally hate when people do that. I mean sure the way-back, it makes no sense and could be dangerous if there are pampered concrete-oval types clogging up the road. But there are lots of reasons to "just sprint." One...for sprinting's sake, don't you like going fast? I do. If I wanted to go slow I would be a triathlete. And for training...you don't have many opportunities to put your legs through that after 60+ miles of race pace, climbing, etc. You learn whether you can get on that fatter gear or not, and how the sprint stretch pans out...good knowledge for next year (or even next race). You learn how to navigate a road pack that's sprinting, a skill to itself (& difft from riding the oval). And tactics, if everyone plays along. It really doesn't matter if you're actually sprinting for 15th, if you have a group it's a chance to practice all that stuff. If you don't get a placing at least you get practice.

Sometimes it even works! In one RR I sprinted from about 25th/pack fodder to 4th/money+fame+babes. Sweet! Another, 50th-or-so to a half-wheel of 10th. In another a group of ~15 of us dug for 500m (going for 5th) and didn't swap places a foot but man I'll remember that one a long time. Etc etc...this is all the fun of bike racing. If you'd been there and sat up I probably would have taken you out too and said who was THAT guy and why didn't he just stay at HOME?

And if your criteria is whether a sprint finish is "meaningful" -- why sprint at all in a 45+ race? Meaningful?? Come on man!

I am with you though on dropping these deep results. Not because of sprint behavior, just-cuz. In the weekend warrior cats I'd be perfectly happy with 1-10 and "you didn't win or get points, thanks for coming out". But of course there needs to be some quid pro quo so in 45+...Certificates of Achievement all around and NO placings at all! The 9 ubers will know who among them won each race and they are the only ones who care! And Jesster whenever he cracks top-10 so he can rub it in here on the forums when WG gives him crap! Yeah!

r4l

WarrenG wrote:
But even a crash once in awhile is still stupid and uneeded. Last year I was taken down and suffered a fractured scapula because of two lower category riders in a 45+ race who were sprinting for places that didn't matter as I was coasting in.

If you're not in for a meaningful place then just coast in. Knowing the results won't show those meaningless places will encourage that safer behavior.Empirical evidence seems to suggest that "coasting in" has its hazards; I certainly will be more aware when executing such a maneuver. What "matters" and what is a "meaningful place" is a matter of opinion. Interesting on the track that it is made clear that it is the passing rider's responsibility to execute the maneuver safely and I have never heard such a "rule" stated for road. It certainly would help to emphasize this at training races/rides.

I agree with Warren that if your out of the top 20, coast in. the reality is it will never happen. Guys want to beat there freinds, rivals, etc.. and someone will always go for it in the end. I don't have an answer for the problem, it's just something I have learned to deal with. Protect yourself!

On the other hand, the subject of placings being posted beyong top 20? This has been brought up a bunch of times on the forum. I am solid on the fact that everyone pays the same start fee and should be able to get a placing.

2 cents

I have personally heard riders at many different times talking about their sprinting in criteriums to move up from something around 30th place to 20th place. They think it looks bad to have their name in the lower place. Even two teammates sprinting against each other within the pack to beat the other, for 23rd place, and then going on about it after the race.

I am in the races so I see some of it for myself, and I am sure that if I was doing E4 or E5 races I'd see even more of it because that's the source of most of those conversations about the minor places. Some of those last lap crashes aren't among the top 10-20 guys. They're among riders who are overly aggressive (stupid) about maintaining or advancing their 30th place position going into the last two turns.

And you have people in threads like this one and elsewhere who seem to care way too much about those lower places. I read some of their race reports. Do you think they're all just rolling safely across the line?

Besides, if you don't post the result beyond top 20 then most of these guys can tell their friends they were 21st, and that will make them happier than knowing it was really 37th.

I don't think that not placing people in the lower positions will help anything. I have people ( in some cases experienced Cat 3 riders) who try to justify their upgrade request by stating that they placed in X position during on of the first 4 Early Bird training crits. The funny thing is the first 4 weeks of the Early Birds are not real races and no one is placed. Still I have riders who know that they placed 6th of 9th or what ever in those first 4 weeks of the Early Bird series.

There aren't many accidents back in the bunch of sprints among riders of the higher categories because they know there is no point is weaving in and out of other riders just so they can see their name in 26th place instead of 36th. Posting those places certainly encourages bad behavior more than it discourages bad behavior.

But even a crash once in awhile is still stupid and uneeded. Last year I was taken down and suffered a fractured scapula because of two lower category riders in a 45+ race who were sprinting for places that didn't matter as I was coasting in.

And even though you might not see a crash at the finish line there are still other unnecessary incidents near the end of some races.

If you're not in for a meaningful place then just coast in. Knowing the results won't show those meaningless places will encourage that safer behavior.

It really isn't a lot of extra work to place everyone, if everyone has their numbers placed correctly or they don't sit up. For some people just getting the number on the correct side seems to be the first obstacle they have to over come. I haven't seen that many accidents on the final sprint that are well back from the sprint. Most of the accidents I've seen happen near the front of the final sprint.

Actually I should say placing everyone in a Crit really isn't that hard. Getting everyone placed and the results out quickly is much more of a challenge in a road race since you are dealing with lots of groups finishing and you are never sure when the next bunch will finish or what group the next rider belongs to.

And the mind explodes with the idea of how much less grief there would be if the officials didn't have to bother with the placings in district-level races beyond the top 20 or so. Afterall, it's not a running race or triathlon where people outside the top 20 might still be competing for the lower places.

You already know if you did the race and if you finished. Seeing your name recorded for posterity in 36th place doesn't change that. Trying to pass ten more guys in a bunch finish so that you can get your 34th place instead of 44th causes significant safety issues, and if the guys around you are just rolling across the line imagine what they think of you and your little sprint for 34th place? The rest of the world could care less if you crossed the line with 31 riders in front of you or 57 because anyone who's been around bike racing for very long with a proper perspective knows how meaningful that is.

Let's keep things in their proper perspective, reduce the burdens on the over-worked officials, and keep things safe in the bunch as it rolls across the line.

I think at Menlo Park crit we had full results available in less than 10 minutes for most races. Since the promoter was having printer problems we started just posting the full results hand written by race number after a while.

Thankfully most of the riders had their numbers properly pinned on which make getting accurate results out quickly much easier. At Menlo Park we had a couple of riders who's number was blocked out by the rider next to him and then w had a couple of riders who sat up before they crossed the line making it either hard or impossible to read their number. IN these cases results were slowed down as we tried extra tricks to try and come up with a number ( like eliminating all the other riders on the same team or comparing the team jersey with numbers you think the number might be). At Menlo Park it helped to have a second computer with the start list on it so we could sort the start list by club/team to help with the number guessing process for those unreadable numbers.

As I have said about a million times, if you post results, make sure they are accurate. I don't care if it is the top ten or all one hundred. I personally don't care if they only posted the top ten as long as they were accurate. My placing outside of the points is completely meaningless. However, randomly assigning numbers to finishing spots above a certain threshold is not a solution. If there was a simple stated policy that results would only be recorded and reported for the top ten, I could live with that. I am doubtful that most racers would be happy about it though. People have all sorts of metrics that they use to gauge their progress, and finishing 60th one year and 40th the next is a valid one. Paying for a race, driving three hours and then not getting the minor recognition of a finish can be a bid deal.

When I finish top ten, I know it and will wait for the prelim results. If I am outside of that, I am loading the bike up, chatting with friends and then heading home. When the results are posted, I will check them out due to curiosity. There is no way I am going to wait in a barn somewhere to find out if I finished 11th to 1011th.

Okay, which would cause more grief:
Posting preliminary results in which the top ten are correct within the first half-hour of the finish; OR
Delaying the posting of results while the racers gather in a cold, dirty barnyard so that the officials (still monitoring races in progress) can quadruple-check the video to see whether they have the riders in 40th-57th place in correct order?

Hmmmmm......which of these..... :?

p.s. - I won't mention that Ben Jacques-Mayne was listed as finishing 6th in the master 4's race. First Santa Rosa and the Levi gift, then Merco and relegation to the geezer 4's!
Ben, you just keep getting screwed by officials, don't you?

Z-man

Thanks Alan. No grief meant to be given.

Guys,
SBO here has been working to get my lowly placement secured...I know he will do his best to have yours also. Give grief only if constructive. I am frustrated by all of this too...

I see both your points and agree whole heartedly....but as I mentioned before it is not my call.
It seems a bit odd for the gang after 40th place to be out of wack if you would like to e-mail me your numbers and the numbers of who is around you I will gladly look into what/ where you guys finished.

diskzero wrote:I think you should take a look at your process and determine what went wrong. As I have been riding with the same group of guys for a few years, and a few hours in this particular race, it is very obvious to me who is crossing the line in the DV video. What I see in the video simply does not relate to what you have listed. As stated before, the results 39 and higher are simply wrong.I too reviewed DV video and can clearly see myself crossing the line but I too am not in the result. I'm an official and I understand the process of Score -> Judge -> Ref and (with Casey's help) have built a high-def finishing line system and work several non-sanctioned events as a "promoter". It seems strange to me that I too am not included in the results. I agree with diskzero, if I knew this to be true of one of my events, I would definitely revisit my process.

Quote: The current list posted is from the data supplied by the officials and they have the final say! I must say that the group at Merco and central valley were some of the finest!

They may be the finest officials, but that still doesn't explain the inaccuracy of the posted results. As I have said before in these forums, it is better to not post anything at all than to post incorrect results. I think you should take a look at your process and determine what went wrong. As I have been riding with the same group of guys for a few years, and a few hours in this particular race, it is very obvious to me who is crossing the line in the DV video. What I see in the video simply does not relate to what you have listed. As stated before, the results 39 and higher are simply wrong.

Unfortunately what the film says does not always agree with what the officials say. They have info from out on the road...from other judges...etc. All I get is a stream of finishing riders. I present that list to the officials and they add and subtract according to their information and lists. The current list posted is from the data supplied by the officials and they have the final say! I must say that the group at Merco and central valley were some of the finest!
The exception is if I mistype a number. It happens as riders/officials/promoters want the info even before the entire feild has come in...then I tell the officials and the correction is added. Case in point would be the other poster here Alan. He is in my results as 68th place I can see him as clear as day but sadly when the results for the later posting were entered his number was miskeyed as 1058 instead of 1068. Easy error to make but a bit harder to fix as it needs to be reposted and we do not control that segment of results...but the Merco people have been great and I am sure they will stick it up ASAP.

In short the winner is only the winner if the officials say they are... Granted they always come to me to look but my info only comes from a two inch piece of tape theirs comes from the entire course.

There is now an updated version which is STILL wrong. I came in after the main 45+ group thanks to an errant rider pulling out of his pedal. I did finish and I did finish in front of a bunch of racers I know came in behind me. I have even been told my placing but still I am not on the listing. Two years in a row!

I am not trying to belittle your work, but I can clearly see myself coming across at 40 or 41 and I am clearly not in the results. I also do not see several of the riders behind me, who I know and recognize listed. There seems to be no continuity between the racers listed in places 39 to the end to who I see in the Delta Velo video. I can assure you that I wasn't dropped or lapped.

I only mention this because at least years CVC I had to go back after the race and have the tape reviewed as a groups of racers had been inserted into the race results of my race ahead of me. At that race my placing really mattered. At this one it does not. But it would be nice to have results, if listed, be accurate. Thanks!

One thing the very cool Delta video shows you but does not tell you is the few riders who were a lap down who were in the sprint. Another thing it does not show you is rider numbers. You will need them to pull out the masters that decided to sprint with the wrong group.
I went through the film with the officials and verified the top 40 and then they hand picked the balance.
If you think you can pick the top 20 from that video....get yourself an officials license and come on up on the stage.
Very cool coverage by Delta...it is cool that they do it.

Technically, it doesn't really matter as I am assuming the finishing spots that counted for points were correct, but when I compare the video posted on the Delta Velo site with the Cat. 3 results, I can clearly see finishers not listed correctly and quite a few are actually missing from the results.

Yes,
They should be up in the next few days as we just sent them over to the webmaster today. Sorry for the delays! I had to meet with the officials from the RR and pull out some lapped riders....add some crashed riders...double check that the film matched what they had. We met over the weekend at Central Valley. The data has all been upated and will be posted by Merco webmaster as soon as possible.

Thank you to all for waiting

SBO camera guy