velogirl wrote: As loud as I can be, it's hard to influence the entire field sometimes and in this case, there were women who seemed to want to take advantage of the chaos and escape the field.

This happens without regard for gender or catagory.

People cheat, thats what it is and thats how it should be seen.

MS

It's not uncommon for fields to be neutralized without an official. It seemed to me that there were many races this season where each field didn't have a motor ref.

This happened to the Women's 4A field at Snelling this season. Half the women didn't know what it meant to be neutralized or what to do. As the W4A field was overtaken by a men's field at the finish line on lap 2, the women ended up riding parallel to the overtaking men's field for over a mile. When the fields (men and women) approached the feedzone, it got ugly, because the women were on the right and the men (on the left) wanted a feed. I'm amazed no one went down, but no one was happy either. As loud as I can be, it's hard to influence the entire field sometimes and in this case, there were women who seemed to want to take advantage of the chaos and escape the field.

I think officials need to really explain neutralization in depth in their pre-race instructions, especially for the W4 and E5 fields. If even a handful of racers don't understand (or ignore) the directions, the entire field won't neutralize, or the racers who do neutralize will get dropped by the errant handful.

excellent info, Tom. shame about the logistical problems to not allow 2 waves. ah well.

as someone who's raced both in the p/1 field and the 35 1/2/3 fields out there ... i'd agree completely with you that we're running too many categories out on course at the same time.

but, what a great problem to have ... too many racers.

and so, to return to your initial question - my thoughts are that there's no need to reduce the field size to 75. The safety of the field (bike-handling wise) is not really at issue from what i've heard (i know quite a few racers who did that category last year). But i am a boy ... and thusly a bit underqualified. Anyway, a field of 75 or 100 - the 3/4 field will be what it will be.

I reckon the issue is your second point - namely, the neutralization of the 3/4 field and passing of the p/1 and cat 2 fields. i'll throw out one suggestion/observation i've made racing NorCal these past years: there might need to be a bit more education of officials and racers on how field neutralizations can occur in races and yet be both 1) safe and 2) not impact either field negatively in their respective enjoyment/outcomes of the event.

There are things we can do as racers to educate ourselves. We can share information at clinics, within teams, even self-police during events on what the proper etiquette is for field neutralization. However, in the moment of the race, the biggest factor influencing field neutralizations are the officials themselves. I've seen officials hesitate, not really know what to do, etc... And, i've seen officials be spot on perfect.

Tough job for officials, but it's a shame to see it when a neutralization isn't handled well. But out there on the roads, that's when it's all laid down and so we might as well do our best to be prepared for it.

So, my thoughts are to keep the field size at 100 but go on a good educational burst for both riders and officials on how to most efficiently handle field neutralizations during a race.

m

Let me supply a little additional info.

It is not possible to run two full waves. Doug considered this a year or two ago and suggested it to the CHP - they were unwilling to lengthen the period of closure.

I had an interest in running 1 1/2 waves - run one 2-lap field and the W3/4 at 8:00am, and feed in the other fields onto the course around 9:30 - about 30 minutes after the two fields have got the bell. The start is downstream of the finish, so this is possible. Apparently this is also not doable - they cannot shut things down that early.

It is not possible to add an additional field to the current group of classes. From my perspective there are already one or two too many fields on the course at once. We have ~900 riders in 9 different classes on the course at the same time, on a course with laps of under one hour.

clymbing wrote:I agree with mhernandez, about the two wave idea. Robert Leibold did that at Snelling, he then was able to create smaller fields (field A/field B). Like Snelling, McClane is popular, the roads are similar and the smaller fields appear safer (50/50).
Laurie Fenech

Robert created to women's 4 fields because the field limit on women's 4 races is 50 racers. He couldn't have a 75-women field unless he combined women 3 and women 4. Good thing he doesn't read the forum -- we don't want to give him any ideas!

:D

I agree with mhernandez, about the two wave idea. Robert Leibold did that at Snelling, he then was able to create smaller fields (field A/field B). Like Snelling, McClane is popular, the roads are similar and the smaller fields appear safer (50/50).
Laurie Fenech

well, if i can offer a suggestion.

i reckon reducing the field from 75 from 100 won't really solve the problem. there will still be a group that needs to be passed by a men's field (pro/1 or cat2).

in my opinion, the answer is to split the field starts - get the first wave starting at 8am (instead of 9am) and then start your 2nd wave at 1pm. The second wave is all the 2-lap fields. Yeah, we're talkin' a longer day for the promoter's crews and road closures ... but, that's what i'd recommend if you wanted to make it 1) safer and 2) mo' fun for all involved.

You could also add some fields to augment the promoter's purse - such as Jessters lovely geezer categories or even some juniors.

lawdy ... is it road season already?
mhernandez

I do think the time of year matters....there is a larger percentage of racers in early-season races who haven't been doing a lot of racing and haven't had consistent intensity. Oxygen deprivation leads to crashes.

There have been significant crashes in the W3/4 race on this course for the past four years that I know of, probably more before that.

Because the course is relatively flat, the pace is fast (like doing a really long crit). The field tends to stay together as Tom suggests (with the exception of crash victims) and it's definitely a challenge when being overtaken by the larger fields and their caravans.

Put on your asbestos suit? :)

On #1 -
I don't think it matters what date a race is, there will always be a few new faces starting their season at some race, even in September. Until there is some sort of prerequisite before racing like there is for driving, one could always argue this skills thing is an issue for entry level racers.
On the other hand, isn't this one of the few races with that many entrants with cat 4 women? Is it possible to get two fields of 50-60 instead of a single field of 75/100?