casey wrote:I know in a database program I can set things up so that only unique race numbers can be entered without the program giving you a notice that the number you are trying to enter has already been used.Quote:

That's the solution right there. Don't get me wrong guys, I know how hard it is to make this happen. It's often a logistical nightmare and the promoters do a great job of pulling it all off. Still, it doesn't hurt to address and talk about where it occasionally goes wrong as well. No need for hurt feelings and such.

In a road race the officials are working like crazy trying to keep up with the results ( or actually trying to stay only an hour behind). Most of the time the officials don't have time to carefully review the results for duplicate numbers. WE just send a list of numbers off to the registration area where, at Velo Promo races, the Reg people enter the race numbers into a spreadsheet program to produce the printed results available at the race. Lots of times the Reg. people are as busy as the officials and don't notice duplicate numbers in the results. Sometimes the Reg people will notice a duplicate number and call it to the attention of the officials who can then normally figure out that they guess wrong on a hard to read number or figured out someone came across the line twice.

Once the results are posted at the race site the protest period begins. Under the USCF rules once the protest period has ended the results are final and no changes can be made to the results. This means that if someone doesn't catch the duplicate number during the protest period the duplicate number becomes part of the final results. Ideally the spreadsheet program Velo Promo uses should reject a duplicate number in the race number column ( or maybe this isn't a feature of Excel). I know in a database program I can set things up so that only unique race numbers can be entered without the program giving you a notice that the number you are trying to enter has already been used.

Finishing order is recorded by judges, not referees.

A judge has to make their best judgement as to what number they saw. If it so happens that the number is the same as a previous number already recorded, it looks bad but it's not a good practice to guess at a digit. Some finishes have so many people crossing the line that a judge doesn't have the time to do anything other than recording numbers.

casey wrote:There are generally two reasons why a rider's number will appear twice in the results. THe first reason is that a rider will cross the finishline twice. This normally happens when a rider finishes the race then rides back down the course to chat with friends of cheer a friend. When the rider gets done they ride back across the finishline a second time and the officials don't realize the rider has already finished. If you are going to ride back onto the course to chat with people of cheer on a friend please remember to take your number off so you don't confuse the officials.

The second problem is poorly placed numbers that are hard to read on the video. A lot of times the officials need to make an educated guess about what a number really is due to poor placement which leads to shadows or folded over portions of the number.

I understand both of these scenarios. However, I have a question for you... when is it possible for a rider to be listed twice and it's not because he first finished the race and then went back to cheer on a friend, etc., and then crossed the line again? If this is not possible (and it shouldn't be), then can't the referee assume that the first position is the one that counts? Does this not make sense? If it does make sense, then why continue to list it twice? Policy should hold that the first result is the one that counts. Otherwise, why shouldn't that be the policy?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Ken Hernndez wrote:I post a lot of race results for Velo Promo. As a race promoter, I can not change official results when typing them up. The only person that can change official results is the Chief Referee. If numbers are listed twice in the official results, that's the way they get posted. Don't blame Velo Promo or any other promoter for inaccurate results.

This sounds like you're saying "don't blame anyone for inacurrate results". Not exactly words to live by.

I post a lot of race results for Velo Promo. As a race promoter, I can not change official results when typing them up. The only person that can change official results is the Chief Referee. If numbers are listed twice in the official results, that's the way they get posted. Don't blame Velo Promo or any other promoter for inaccurate results.

This is unfortunate; I can commiserate as well. I did a stage race and came in 4th in GC, but got no BAR points (someone else did) due to an error in the recording of my license number. The race was eventually eliminated from the nor cal territory (and BAR competition). Oh well...
At least it sounds like the error will be fixed. Your teammate should also periodically check the BAR web site when results are posted to make sure she gets her just rewards.

There are generally two reasons why a rider's number will appear twice in the results. THe first reason is that a rider will cross the finishline twice. This normally happens when a rider finishes the race then rides back down the course to chat with friends of cheer a friend. When the rider gets done they ride back across the finishline a second time and the officials don't realize the rider has already finished. If you are going to ride back onto the course to chat with people of cheer on a friend please remember to take your number off so you don't confuse the officials.

The second problem is poorly placed numbers that are hard to read on the video. A lot of times the officials need to make an educated guess about what a number really is due to poor placement which leads to shadows or folded over portions of the number.

RacerX wrote:I would hope the numerous errors in those results could indeed be corrected - I mean, c'mom, will Tony Homes really get credit for both 11th AND 34th place in the same race?!? Just one example... I'm sure others have theirs. Glad the gal with with the 5th place race debut will get hers. Besides on-site protest, is there another mechanism for corrections - not that totally accurate results in what is essentially a pre-season training race are that important, but future events might be.

Speed of posting these results was impressive, but like us recers learning where we need work, hopefully VOP will also do a serious assessment of their OTHERWISE excellent performance.

I'm usually the last person to get on Velopromo about anything. I only want to be supportive as we'd be nowhere without them. I realize how good I have it in NorCal merely because they exist. Could you imagine the calendar minus all of the road races they promote? Yikes!

That said, i'd gladly wait 1 extra hour for the results if they could get a volunteer to glance over a results page before it's posted just to see if it makes any sense. For example, it seems like every third results page last year listed riders finishing twice. Is this necessary? How long would it take to glance over the list and make sure this doesn't happen? This just sounds like some pretty simple due diligence to me that is being ignored. No, it's not a big deal, but why live with the mistake if you don't have to?

In fact, i'll gladly volunteer my services to Velopromo. Before you send out the results, email them to me and i'll give 'em a once over and email them back. I'd only be pointing out the obvious errors, but it would save some folks some hassle and also lessen the amount of emails they'd receive. Win/win for everyone.

I would hope the numerous errors in those results could indeed be corrected - I mean, c'mom, will Tony Homes really get credit for both 11th AND 34th place in the same race?!? Just one example... I'm sure others have theirs. Glad the gal with with the 5th place race debut will get hers. Besides on-site protest, is there another mechanism for corrections - not that totally accurate results in what is essentially a pre-season training race are that important, but future events might be.

Speed of posting these results was impressive, but like us recers learning where we need work, hopefully VOP will also do a serious assessment of their OTHERWISE excellent performance.

Anonymous wrote:I would hope being a new racer who is on a team that she would have had someone with experience let her know how important following up on placings can be. You know at the race when she was telling you she got 5th. Not once everyone got home and it was to late as it is now.

Some new racers really do need to be TAUGHT and not just exposed to racing.

Just a bit to think on.

I was not at the race with her. She DID verify her placing at the conclusion of the race. They have since announced that they will fix the posted result.

I would hope being a new racer who is on a team that she would have had someone with experience let her know how important following up on placings can be. You know at the race when she was telling you she got 5th. Not once everyone got home and it was to late as it is now.

Some new racers really do need to be TAUGHT and not just exposed to racing.

Just a bit to think on.

I feel your teammates pain. I had my best race results placing ever in a race - 2nd place (verified by Ref at finish line & results card) but no posting of the 55+ cat. on the NCNCA results page. Yes "S" does happen & Velopromo always does a great job putting on a race.

As disappointed as she may be however I have a feeling with that kind of results this early in the season she will upgrade soon enough. The upgrade process is designed to encourage upward movement & has an experience factor designed into the decision.

Be careful what you wish for it may come sooner than you think & more pain & suffering will be on its way. Good luck. 8)

SWoo wrote:
This result is online about four months quicker than velopromo typically puts results online so if it's a harbinger of things to come, at least results turnaround time wise, it's a good sign.

I can barely type from astonishment! :shock: Next up at 10:00 - hell freezes over!

Not to jinx us, but the race also started on time... Maybe next I'll find some "excellent" pavement at Snelling.

snide comments aside, big thanks due to VP for once again giving us a great road race. I just wish they ran it in reverse...

That's bad but I hope one bad experience doesn't turn anyone away.

I've had it happen to me both ways - finish low and get a high result and finish high and not show up in results.

One of the oft repeated rules of advice from some officials at the start line is that if you think you are in the top ten (or whatever's important to you), stick around for the preliminary results and verify them and be prepared to file a protest if you and others remember it differently. Until we buy and use something like FinishLynx, this is going to happen. :) We all make mistakes.

On the bright side she can be a cat 4 for a longer time and beat up on the other riders.

:)

edit: one more plus
This result is online about four months quicker than velopromo typically puts results online so if it's a harbinger of things to come, at least results turnaround time wise, it's a good sign.