Junior Women riding with Junior Men

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GFM
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Today there were 9 women in the JR 10-14 race at Rancho Cordova. Yet it remains that most finishers are not with the main bunch, which can be confusing at the finish. Lapped riders may not be sure when their bell lap is, and therefore not know when to sprint. Rule 3D3(b) doesn't indicate if the leaders catch you just before the line (and the field hasn't) whether or not you have finished. I seen juniors sprint too early and have to go one more lap AND a sprint one lap too late.

No racer I know carries around their rulebook in their jersey pocket (if they have one) to answer questions DURING the race. Certainly we'd not expect a Junior to have a grasp on the rules in this instance. What seems fair is for the officials to explain the lapped rider scenarios BEFORE the race, and NOT while the racers are being distracted by rollouts! These children expect that before they race:
1) Everyone gets a chance to do their best
2) The rules will be fairly enforced
3) The rules apply to everyone involved
4) Sometimes people will make mistakes
5) An apology rights many wrongs

Since the officials ALL HAVE RULEBOOKS, doesn't it make sense that more care is given at staging to explain the rules to Juniors than adults?
Otherwise the "women" will find something else to do on a weekend than race against boys that will continue to lap them and not know when their race is over? My daughter, Taylor, doesn't want to return to this race. And she's extremely frustrated with how many times her results have been in error. If no one cares about results, then fewer girls will continue racing.

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casey
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

1H2. Women may enter any race for which they are eligible
by age, category, and any performance requirements and
may enter categorized races for men that are up to one
category lower than their women's category, or in the case of
category 1 women, up to two categories lower. In addition,
category 4 and 3 women who are 35 or older may compete in
Masters races for all riders up to 20 years greater than their
racing age, subject to other eligibility requirements.

Basically under the USCF rule above there is not such thing as a men's race since women are allowed to enter any race they qualify for based on the above rule.

GFM
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Two championship medals at a District Crit--is it possible?

Today's championships saw one female rider win a gold medal in her age group and then ride another race with the males of the same age group where she placed fifth. I wonder if she'd be eligible for another medal had she placed third or higher?

Norcal_junior
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Starting fields seperatly

According to a rule from last year, starting two fields on the same course as described isn't allowed. The 15-16 and 17-18 fields were very vocal about this to make sure that our races weren't started seperatly.

-David

GFM
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Cat's Hill--step in the right direction

The race director delayed the start of the 10-12 year olds by 30 seconds. This was a good move. The parents were happy with the decision and even the 13-14 year olds I talked to liked the idea. The 10-12 girl who won had never raced before! And by the time riders were being lapped the race was almost over. The starter reviewed rule 3D3 and took time to ask if the kids understood it. The fifteen 10-12 racers seemed calmer then they do when started with the bigger kids. Two thumbs up LGBRC!! Now if we teach those Elite 3 racers how to take a straight line so as to avoid SIX crashes. But I digress.

velogirl
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

Norcal_junior wrote:Adressing velogirl:
The idea that juniors are ignorant and confused about the rules is very off base.

Hi David! If you re-read my post, you'll notice that I didn't say juniors were ignorant or confused. What I said was that we put a lot of responsibility on our younger racers and maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to improve junior racing in the district.

My suggestion was simply that we might consider providing more support for our juniors than we currently do. Even in clubs with strong juniors programs, parents take on a lot of responsibility to coach, schedule, and manage their children's cycling careers. I'm sure many parents (and juniors) would appreciate the support. Obviously, if you read the original post, there is at least one parent in the district who would probably think this is a good idea.

This would add value to a racing program and shouldn't be seen as a burden. And for those of you who are experienced junior racers, you could be mentors to the younger, less experienced racers. It would be a good way to also teach juniors that giving back to the sport is an important part of what we do.

I've seen lots of juniors race for a season or two and then give up because they get frustrated with how things are currently run in the district. If we want to continue to grow the sport, we need to support these young racers.

Lorri Lee Lown
http://www.velogirls.com

Norcal_junior
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

Adressing velogirl:
The idea that juniors are ignorant and confused about the rules is very off base. The problem with our racing category is that we have riders that have never raced before, and also riders that have raced for years and are winning category 2 races. I think that the idea of a rules and skills clinic is great for some riders, but others would be unfairly burdened by a requirement to attend such an event. For those who wish to have a formal introduction to racing, Velopromo runs the Early Bird series, which I found to be a great tool when I started racing. The problem with this training series, however, is that it takes place in January, and most first time junior racers start their seasons with the Cherry Pie criterium.
While I feel sorry for female riders, they are just another group of riders that always is shorted when it comes to race day. Many younger age groups are often forced to ride in the 15-16 and 17-18 races (which are often as challenging as a category 3 race). Sadly, junior women are just another group without enough riders to warrant a seperate race.
-David

-David

GFM
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It's happened more than once with her--results misread

The last three races she's entered, the results weren't right the first time. The bottom line is I've had to intercept potential misplacings in many of her races. She knows I'll be her advocate and coach; I had class that Saturday and couldn't remind of rules as the race progressed. When my wife called and described the finish, I couldn't recall the exact wording or rule number (I don't carry a rulebook in my pocket--I've been unable to get one from USAcycling). The wording on 3D3 states that at the start of a criterium, the lapped riders option will be CLEARLY EXPLAINED. It wasn't. I've gone over both 3D3 and 3D7 with Taylor since the race, and what she can do to avoid future confusion.

As for Wente JR Criterium, she was one of three that were visibly off the back after one lap. She caught/lapped the young CVC rider later on, and then rode away from him. He retired a bit later, and with 2 to go those not in contention (lapped) were pulled. At this point I knew she was at least ahead of him, but when the results were posted, he was listed 15th and she was 16th. I had a race to do when the results were being posted. So we accepted the 15 minute protest period had already passed when she told me what happened. We weren't happy, but had to leave for Sunday night obligations. The saga continues below.

Then at Kearney Park Circuit race, she wasn't even listed as a finisher! (Where have we heard that before?) Thank Mrs. Howard for pointing that out to the officials while I was FREEZING in the 45+ race. How hard was that, she wasn't even riding solo then?

At Snelling's JR 13-14 race, she rode the last lap alone. The follow vehicle said there weren't anymore in her category on the course. I knew she was at least 3 minutes back and told Janice "Taylor's still out there!" When she did finish, I let the scorer know that but he didn't write her number down. I waited and then asked Janice if they got her down. She assured me she did. (There were 4 points at stake here.) What would've happened if I wasn't there?

Is it any wonder that she's frustrated? I've told her to yell out "finishing" next time, but should she have to? I guess we'll be reviewing the rulebook before Cat's Hill to avoid disappointment. And I WILL be there to help both my girls keep their worries to what it should be--scaling the wall.

velogirl
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

We all know that not every racer knows all the rules (or remembers them in the heat of the moment). Adult racers can get as confused and frustrated as the juniors do. However, I think the point here is that perhaps we should spend a little more time educating our juniors.

Maybe all racers who participate in the junior series (and their parents) should be asked to attend a racer orientation session before the season begins. Better yet, make it a skills clinic and rules orientation. This still wouldn't prevent all confusion, but it would be a positive way to help our juniors have a good experience during their races and also set the tone that in addition to just knowing how to ride their bikes, the juniors should be responsible for learning/understanding the rules.

Another thought is that we could set up an email group for ncnca juniors. This could be a fun way for them to get to know each other, plan rides and carpools, and also for someone (the ncnca junior series coordinator?) to share important information with the kids.

Of course, parents are instrumental in helping the juniors have a positive attitude about racing. In a situation like the one described, finding a way to explain to the racers what happened in a way that will encourage them to continue participating (rather than discourage them), will go a long way toward growing the sport.

Lorri Lee Lown
http://www.velogirls.com

casey
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

I personally called out to both riders in question and said they were done as they crossed the line. Unfortunately since another group was approaching the line that needed to be picked I couldn't follow the riders with my eyes to see if they heard me and yell at them again if ti was apparent they hadn't heard.

Since last night I have been trying to think of any other sport where the officials go over the rules with competitors just before the start of competition and so far I'm drawing a blank.

I'm missing your point about what the big deal is weather a rider has a copy of the rule book in their car or not. The time riders need to have and read a rule book is before they get to the race site.

The starters almost always ask if anyone has any questions before they start a race. As best as I can remember I heard the request for questions before the start of the different groups on Sat.

I'm sure if you ask different people they are going to feel that different rules from the long list I posted before are important and should be covered before the start of a Crit. Which ones are the officials suppose to go over with the riders since there isn't time to cover all the rules?

GFM
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Officials have the rulebook with them at each race!

There was no "you're done" heard being said to the two girls in question.
They both thought they were still racing. The officials job to is enforce the rules. The lapped rider rules have been misunderstood this season by a great number of riders. So what if they don't assume the responsibility to read the rulebook THEY DO NOT CARRY WITH THEM OR EVEN HAVE IN THEIR CAR. The least that could happen is some ticked off riders, the worst that could happen is someone could be seriously hurt.

Law enforcement includes anticipating potential problem areas and attempting to minimize them. That's why at road race staging I hear many "instructions" to watch out for such and such hazard and what to do when you pass another group, and sometimes the centerline rule. I get that these are safety issues and extremely important, yet I hear masters chatting in the back constantly during staging. It's maddening.

Yet I would never in my 13 years educating children imagine that they knew all the rules to a game or activity before we started. Even if I personally taught the rules before, I'd review them before we started to ensure safer participation by all. At the very least, the starter could've asked if anyone had any questions before the start. These juniors are children and haven't had years to read the rules. The authority figure there is the official, and can aid these children in feeling more at ease by taking the time to stress what's important. They were rushed Saturday, I know. Was that the safest choice?

casey
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Junior Women riding with Junior Men

As an official I'm always amazed at how few riders take the time to read the rule book. Riders cold greatly benefit their performance in some situation if they took the time to learn the rules an figure out how to best use the rule to their advantage. The various rule books are available online at https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=369 for anyone who wants them.

As for your suggestion that officials review rules for riders before the start of the race this just isn't practical. If the officials are lucky there are 10 minutes scheduled between the end of one race and the start of the next race. In some situations as little as 5 minutes are scheduled between races. In the typical situation where there are 10 minutes between race here is how things normally go.

The lead rider finishes at or near the appointed time. The pack though tends to string out on the final lap ( as some riders decide to sit up during the last lap). It can take from 45 seconds to a bit over a minute for all riders to cross the finishline meaning 9 minutes till the start of the next race.

Riders for the next race want to do a lap or two of warm-up. Since I know of lawsuits based, in part, on the rider claiming they were not given a chance to inspect a course ahead of time it is a good idea to let riders take a lap or two. This can take around 5 minutes ( so we are now at 4 minutes to the scheduled start).

You start calling riders to the line. It can take 3 minutes for all the riders to report to the line. Now you have 1 minute till the scheduled start.

There are some announcements that need to be made before the start. what category is racing ( yea some riders who up at the wrong time in the wrong field), length of the race, where the pit is, when free laps end Will off the back riders be pulled and where results will be posted. These announcements will take up most of the remaining minute before the scheduled start. This doesn't leave a lot of time to review the Crit rules for riders. Also which rules should the officials review with the riders.

Lapped riders may be pulled when deemed out of contention or the officials may allow them to remain in the race.
If the officials allow lapped riders to remain in the race then
1) Lapped riders may work with riders on different laps
2) Lapped riders are ineligible for Prime prizes
3) Lapped riders finish at the same time as the race leader. For Crits the race leader is the first rider on the course Vs the Track Points Race or Madison rule where you aren't lapped until the pack catches you)
4) If you are lapped on the race leader's last lap they you will go from 2 laps to go to finishing the race without ever hearing the bell or seeing 1 lap to go ( this one should be a sub section of #3 above)

Field finish option - If a group of riders lap the field then the field may be finished early and asked to exit the course so the riders who have gained a lap may sprint just among themselves.

Free laps
1) When you can take a free lap ( getting slowed down or caught behind a crash doesn't entitle you to a free lap)
2) What to do to take a free lap ( ie come to the pit to have your problem fixed don't go to your car to fix the problem and then show up at the pit.
3) Cutting the course to get to the pit
4) Cutting the course to get to the pit when free laps have ended

Riders may not make progress without their bikes

Riders can't ride backwards on the course to get to the pits

OK so which of the above rules should be reviewed before the start and if the scheduled start time passed before all of the rules you want to review is over do you shorted then current race or do you fall behind schedule and start the next race(s) late?

Is it really the job of the officials to educate riders to the rules of racing just before the start of the race, when riders have a short attention span and want to get going with their race before they cool down, or would it be more useful if clubs, teams and coaches worked with their riders ahead of time to review rules so that the riders can learn how to use the rules to their advantage?

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