....I dont recall it being said anywhere that because I work the pit as an official, I am also providing security to wheel stock. A difference in duties here. Enforcement of free lap rules etc. Seems to me that the Pit guy/gal would be an additional person. Like say Williams wheels.You still have an official along with the wheel provider.
Do correct me if I am wrong.
Volunteer?
Maybe the time is now given the number of riders/racers and losses.
cervelo-man wrote:Clubs use volunteers from their club. VP pays the people in there organization. For VP to place security on the wheels, we voluntarily placed in the pitt, is an extra $100 per Crit. Do you think VP will absorb that cost? I don't.
Uh, right. There was a $3,000 purse in just our heat. Coulda been $2,900 and nobody would have really cared-- they could have just sacrificed their "hot lap" opener, which was $100.
Sure, if someone is determined to steal something they will probably succeed-- true for wheels, bikes, cars, children, social security numbers, whatever. Doesn't mean I'm asking for the moon when I suggest a promoter assign a volunteer/paid worker to work a wheel pit when every hour there are ~100 riders leaving at least somewhat expensive gear on the sidelines.
PLENTY of races do this, it isn't some decadent luxury I'm asking for here.
Sorry but I think people are fooling themselves if they think a single pit monitor is enough to stop a thief who really wants a set of wheels. Even if the single pit monitor is watching wheels all the time ( instead of watching any of the racing) you still have cases where there might be a major crash and with lots of people coming into the pit it would be pretty simple for a thief to make off with a set of wheels. Every pit I've seen run by a Pro level tech support group has 2 or 3 mechanics and 2 or 3 additional people in the pit. Now with 5 or 6 sets of eyes I think there is a better chance to discourage a wheel thief but even then a determined thief can probably still make off with a pair of wheels in the right situation.
An added note: Not to play down anyones losses. But to show that even good security isn't perfect. Wasn't it Quick Step that had all of it's team bikes stolen out of a locked-guarded wharehouse last year.
Sorry to hear about anyones loss of equipment. It's never a pleasant experience to have something stolen. Last year, at Madera stage race, I placed my Zipp 303's in the pit. Looked around and it accured to me how vulnerable our wheels are to theft. I'm surprised that this is not a bigger issue than it is, for all events. That was the last time I left expensive wheels in the pit. Nor will I ever do it again. I'm not about to leave $2k worth of equipment sitting on the side of the road based on the honor system. I'll leave the spare old set, but not the new bling. Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT complaining against VP. VP has NEVER supplied wheel security and WE ALL know that. It is OUR decision to leave wheels in the pit. Promoters DO NOT force us to do so. If Williams wants to do volunteer for everyone of VP's Crits, I'm sure Robert would be ok with that. Keep in mind a differnce between a club promoted event and VP. Clubs use volunteers from their club. VP pays the people in there organization. For VP to place security on the wheels, we voluntarily placed in the pitt, is an extra $100 per Crit. Do you think VP will absorb that cost? I don't. I always understood that we leave wheels in the pitt at our own risk. I raced all last year with out a flat. No flats, knock on wood, this year. Is it worth risking high end wheels for the possibility of a flat in one event or not at all? Not in my book. Don't blame the Promoter...Blame the thief. Did you report the stolen wheels to the Police?
Why is that every time there is a problem someone will suggest that the fix is for everyone to volunteer?
This is seriously flawed logic.
The racers paid their entry fee to participate, for that entry fee certain services should be provided by the promoter. Among those service is a secure wheel pit.
It's every promoter responsibility to make sure they staff their event. It is not the participants responsibility to provide the missing man power to make the event happen.
Every year VSRT provides a person to man the wheel pit at the Wente Crit. It's one of the jobs listed on their event planning sheet. As it should be for every promoter.
VOLUNTEER as a Pit Monitor...
If everybody volunteered one full day, then we can have marshals to keep courses safe and Wheel Pit Monitors at every race! Plenty of racers out there, just not enough volunteers...
JoeRacer wrote:
Don't put expensive wheels in the pit/car. If you are racing on expensive wheels, don't get a wheel from the pit/car. Bring a tube and replace fix the flat so your wheels never leave your sight...
Uh, sure, I'll just throw a new tube in during my free 65 second lap... I like the colored tape idea, but I don't think that would really prevent theft either.
Look, plenty of good races have wheel pit monitors who are there to make sure the people TAKING wheels have the same number on their body that is fixed to the wheels. That person is also there to make sure wheels aren't deposited with out tags, so there is no confusion. It's really not a complicated notion, and it isn't too much to ask.
If you use the wheel pit or neutral support at ANY race..
Label your wheels! Both the ones currently on your bike and the wheels you are putting in the pit/car. Get a label maker and put your Name, Phone and Email around the hub. (Don't rely on your race number as that changes race to race.)
Don't put expensive wheels in the pit/car. If you are racing on expensive wheels, don't get a wheel from the pit/car. Bring a tube and replace fix the flat so your wheels never leave your sight...
Here is what I have noticed. People/riders leave or deposit their wheels to/in the pits.Most go with the idea that they the rider will recognize their wheels upon actually needing a replacement. It suprises me that so many riders elect to leave their wheelsets in the pits without their names attached or attach some flimsy piece of paper subscribing the set as theirs. Only to have the flimsy piece of identification blow away or lost in the shuffle.
My idea and I know it wont solve all, attach real identification in a readable form. Like said before, wheel bags are good. Pit monitors are certainly needed and action has been taken to provide such with the "fencing" being used as well.
I certainly hope this is'nt becoming a habit so to avoid the check in- check out of wheels,
It is almost impossible for 1 or two people to police a wheel pit and prevent someone who is determined to steal equipment. The only way that race staff could prevent wheel thefts would be to have an enclosed trailer for all the wheels and riders would have to check their wheels in and out of the trailer. A set up like this isn't going to be practical if there is a big crash and several riders need their wheels at the same time.
In the old days some riders would put either brightly colored tape, or paint on the center of their hubs. Doing this makes it pretty easy to spot your wheels. since the tape or paint is inside the center of the wheel it isn't that easy to remove it without undoing a bunch of spokes. I know of at least one rider who one week had his wheels taken out of the pit by someone else. The next week he was in a race and noticed the rider he was drafting had his missing rear wheel because he could see the colored tape on the rear hub. While not common, wheel theft is something that happens in wheel pits around the country. A added layer of protection could be bigger teams putting someone in the pit who basically keeps their hands on the team wheels. This would make it a lot faster for a team rider to find their wheels when they come into the pit and it should prevent the loss of equipment from theft.
Of the common elements with Justin and Jonathan's loss, the one that seems preventable is fancy wheelsets. Warren's suggestion makes that less of an issue. The promoter could also hire another official to monitor the wheel pit as their primary duty. Central Valley races are no less "safe" to leave equipment than are many in the bay area. But if you feel that location of the race determines safety of the wheelpit, then stock it with training wheels and hope you don't get a flat OR stock it with expensive wheels and hope they don't get taken.
Not disagreeing with the issues, but I think it's best to put your wheels inside wheel bags so no one can see what's in there. I have a permanent label on the handles, along with some colored electrical tape to identify my front wheel's bag and a different color of tape to identify my rear wheel's bag.
A colored zip-tie on the zipper tab makes it easy to open the bag-it's at least as fast as trying to get a piece of paper out of the spokes.
I think the key similarities are "valley races" and "nice wheelsets."
Really, though, it's sort of ridiculous that nobody was monitoring the pit from the promotion team. That's a lot of gear left unattended. And all they told me was "well, we have a fence here," pointing at a 4' barrier.
....I dont recall it being said anywhere that because I work the pit as an official, I am also providing security to wheel stock. A difference in duties here. Enforcement of free lap rules etc. Seems to me that the Pit guy/gal would be an additional person. Like say Williams wheels.You still have an official along with the wheel provider.
Do correct me if I am wrong.
Volunteer?
Maybe the time is now given the number of riders/racers and losses.
cervelo-man wrote:Clubs use volunteers from their club. VP pays the people in there organization. For VP to place security on the wheels, we voluntarily placed in the pitt, is an extra $100 per Crit. Do you think VP will absorb that cost? I don't.
Uh, right. There was a $3,000 purse in just our heat. Coulda been $2,900 and nobody would have really cared-- they could have just sacrificed their "hot lap" opener, which was $100.
Sure, if someone is determined to steal something they will probably succeed-- true for wheels, bikes, cars, children, social security numbers, whatever. Doesn't mean I'm asking for the moon when I suggest a promoter assign a volunteer/paid worker to work a wheel pit when every hour there are ~100 riders leaving at least somewhat expensive gear on the sidelines.
PLENTY of races do this, it isn't some decadent luxury I'm asking for here.
Sorry but I think people are fooling themselves if they think a single pit monitor is enough to stop a thief who really wants a set of wheels. Even if the single pit monitor is watching wheels all the time ( instead of watching any of the racing) you still have cases where there might be a major crash and with lots of people coming into the pit it would be pretty simple for a thief to make off with a set of wheels. Every pit I've seen run by a Pro level tech support group has 2 or 3 mechanics and 2 or 3 additional people in the pit. Now with 5 or 6 sets of eyes I think there is a better chance to discourage a wheel thief but even then a determined thief can probably still make off with a pair of wheels in the right situation.
An added note: Not to play down anyones losses. But to show that even good security isn't perfect. Wasn't it Quick Step that had all of it's team bikes stolen out of a locked-guarded wharehouse last year.
Sorry to hear about anyones loss of equipment. It's never a pleasant experience to have something stolen. Last year, at Madera stage race, I placed my Zipp 303's in the pit. Looked around and it accured to me how vulnerable our wheels are to theft. I'm surprised that this is not a bigger issue than it is, for all events. That was the last time I left expensive wheels in the pit. Nor will I ever do it again. I'm not about to leave $2k worth of equipment sitting on the side of the road based on the honor system. I'll leave the spare old set, but not the new bling. Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT complaining against VP. VP has NEVER supplied wheel security and WE ALL know that. It is OUR decision to leave wheels in the pit. Promoters DO NOT force us to do so. If Williams wants to do volunteer for everyone of VP's Crits, I'm sure Robert would be ok with that. Keep in mind a differnce between a club promoted event and VP. Clubs use volunteers from their club. VP pays the people in there organization. For VP to place security on the wheels, we voluntarily placed in the pitt, is an extra $100 per Crit. Do you think VP will absorb that cost? I don't. I always understood that we leave wheels in the pitt at our own risk. I raced all last year with out a flat. No flats, knock on wood, this year. Is it worth risking high end wheels for the possibility of a flat in one event or not at all? Not in my book. Don't blame the Promoter...Blame the thief. Did you report the stolen wheels to the Police?
Why is that every time there is a problem someone will suggest that the fix is for everyone to volunteer?
This is seriously flawed logic.
The racers paid their entry fee to participate, for that entry fee certain services should be provided by the promoter. Among those service is a secure wheel pit.
It's every promoter responsibility to make sure they staff their event. It is not the participants responsibility to provide the missing man power to make the event happen.
Every year VSRT provides a person to man the wheel pit at the Wente Crit. It's one of the jobs listed on their event planning sheet. As it should be for every promoter.
-R
VOLUNTEER as a Pit Monitor...
If everybody volunteered one full day, then we can have marshals to keep courses safe and Wheel Pit Monitors at every race! Plenty of racers out there, just not enough volunteers...
JoeRacer wrote:
Don't put expensive wheels in the pit/car. If you are racing on expensive wheels, don't get a wheel from the pit/car. Bring a tube and replace fix the flat so your wheels never leave your sight...
Uh, sure, I'll just throw a new tube in during my free 65 second lap... I like the colored tape idea, but I don't think that would really prevent theft either.
Look, plenty of good races have wheel pit monitors who are there to make sure the people TAKING wheels have the same number on their body that is fixed to the wheels. That person is also there to make sure wheels aren't deposited with out tags, so there is no confusion. It's really not a complicated notion, and it isn't too much to ask.
William's Neutral Wheel Support.
Priceless!
Ron
If you use the wheel pit or neutral support at ANY race..
Label your wheels! Both the ones currently on your bike and the wheels you are putting in the pit/car. Get a label maker and put your Name, Phone and Email around the hub. (Don't rely on your race number as that changes race to race.)
Don't put expensive wheels in the pit/car. If you are racing on expensive wheels, don't get a wheel from the pit/car. Bring a tube and replace fix the flat so your wheels never leave your sight...
Here is what I have noticed. People/riders leave or deposit their wheels to/in the pits.Most go with the idea that they the rider will recognize their wheels upon actually needing a replacement. It suprises me that so many riders elect to leave their wheelsets in the pits without their names attached or attach some flimsy piece of paper subscribing the set as theirs. Only to have the flimsy piece of identification blow away or lost in the shuffle.
My idea and I know it wont solve all, attach real identification in a readable form. Like said before, wheel bags are good. Pit monitors are certainly needed and action has been taken to provide such with the "fencing" being used as well.
I certainly hope this is'nt becoming a habit so to avoid the check in- check out of wheels,
Will
It is almost impossible for 1 or two people to police a wheel pit and prevent someone who is determined to steal equipment. The only way that race staff could prevent wheel thefts would be to have an enclosed trailer for all the wheels and riders would have to check their wheels in and out of the trailer. A set up like this isn't going to be practical if there is a big crash and several riders need their wheels at the same time.
In the old days some riders would put either brightly colored tape, or paint on the center of their hubs. Doing this makes it pretty easy to spot your wheels. since the tape or paint is inside the center of the wheel it isn't that easy to remove it without undoing a bunch of spokes. I know of at least one rider who one week had his wheels taken out of the pit by someone else. The next week he was in a race and noticed the rider he was drafting had his missing rear wheel because he could see the colored tape on the rear hub. While not common, wheel theft is something that happens in wheel pits around the country. A added layer of protection could be bigger teams putting someone in the pit who basically keeps their hands on the team wheels. This would make it a lot faster for a team rider to find their wheels when they come into the pit and it should prevent the loss of equipment from theft.
Of the common elements with Justin and Jonathan's loss, the one that seems preventable is fancy wheelsets. Warren's suggestion makes that less of an issue. The promoter could also hire another official to monitor the wheel pit as their primary duty. Central Valley races are no less "safe" to leave equipment than are many in the bay area. But if you feel that location of the race determines safety of the wheelpit, then stock it with training wheels and hope you don't get a flat OR stock it with expensive wheels and hope they don't get taken.
Not disagreeing with the issues, but I think it's best to put your wheels inside wheel bags so no one can see what's in there. I have a permanent label on the handles, along with some colored electrical tape to identify my front wheel's bag and a different color of tape to identify my rear wheel's bag.
A colored zip-tie on the zipper tab makes it easy to open the bag-it's at least as fast as trying to get a piece of paper out of the spokes.
I think the key similarities are "valley races" and "nice wheelsets."
Really, though, it's sort of ridiculous that nobody was monitoring the pit from the promotion team. That's a lot of gear left unattended. And all they told me was "well, we have a fence here," pointing at a 4' barrier.
Also, I would like to just point out the similarity of our two situations:
- Valley races within 20 miles of each other
- Pro/1/2 wheel pits
- Pretty nice wheelsets
- Following the Cat 3 event
Bummer, and I know how you feel.... see my post here:
http://www.ncncaracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1153