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gene doping?
Tue, 04/25/2006 - 11:52pm
as a graduate student in the field of exercise physiology (and of course as a cyclist), like many of you, i have taken an interest in the nature of EPO use in our sport. i wonder, how many people are really taking the stuff, and at what level it trickles down to. Is it something that is limited to use only in the pro ranks? does it trickle down to the 5's? or, is it really not as prevalant as some of us may think. since i have no firsthand knowledge of its use, meaning i haven't watched anyone inject a few units of rhEPO, the basis of this post is simply speculation. logic states that if nobody used it, we wouldn't need a comprehensive set of tests to detect its presence.
i just finished (over a glass of tasty red wine) reading an article that is pending publication in a first tier, peer reviewed publication that found that false-positives could be observed under current WADA procedures. (yes, i am a nerd, but am ok with that :shock:) for those of you who care, here is the link to the abstract (for copyright reasons, i can't post the entire article- but if you are interested and can wade through the jargon, you can email me and we can figure out a way for you to get the whole thing)
http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/2006-01-0028v1
there are obvious ramifications to this research.
maybe Tyler really didn't do it. maybe lots of other people do and will ultimately be able to use this research to avoid punishment. a variety of scenarios are present.
this afternoon, i carefully read the WADA banned substances list. i was particularly amused by section M3.
Gene Doping
the non-theraputic use of cells, genes, genetic elements, or the modulation of gene expression, having the capacity to enhance athletic performance, is prohibited.
since there is not a test (to my puny knowledge) that would detect the presence of Ppar Delta (or other genetic material thought to have an impact on exercise capacity) in greater abundance, this seems like an odd statement. mind you, to my knowledge, there is currently no technology available for an athlete to "gene dope" i'm sure it's a testament to the inevatible- the concept that, as long as there is the incentive, people will find a way. it's coming for sure, i do have firstand knowledge of this.
so, what do you all think? EPO? gene doping? Is it good? bad? inconsequential?
Chuck Norris beats everyone with his round house, no cheaters allowed
diskzero wrote: My doping techniques involve mass ingestion of red wine, pizza and ice cream the night before a race. Based on my results, the erogenic properties of the substances appear to negligible at best.
Awesome! I thought I was the only one who employed that strategy. although the combination of pizza and ice cream is a bit much for those of us who are sensitive to lactose...
It wasn't my intent with this thread to start pointing fingers or even trying to determine who (specifically) may be using *banned* ergogenic aids (there are a couple of websites out there doing this already). I was really curious to see if the doping issue is really as widespread as some would lead us to believe and to see what the thoughts of other racers were on the topic of more advanced forms of *enhancement*.
Dave Fuentes is a master...
Quote:Sorry to say, but there are occasionally even some local masters using steroids-really stupid thing to do for nothing but minor fame and glory
Warren, any chance you can be more specific?
Ron
If you read enough race reports, there are plenty of people cheating without using any outside means whatsoever, and I don't mean the misunderstanding the rules/what the official said kind of thing that was discussed here earlier this year, but people who know when they can and cannot draft legally and do the wrong thing or when they cannot cut the course legally but cut the course - but are proud enough of their acts to brag about it in the team race reports.
diskzero wrote:... I am with RacerX in thinking that Red Bull, a few shots of espresso or a couple of antihistamines might be the most advanced form of doping we see locally.
Sorry to say, but there are occasionally even some local masters using steroids-really stupid thing to do for nothing but minor fame and glory.
RacerX wrote:
Re. gene doping (no offence to Gene Ragan), I think the stimulant class is much more likely to used/abused. Cheaper, accessible, less overall health risk especially if only done for the Sunday crit. Not that I advocate. Well, nothing stronger thean Peet's anyway.
X
My doping techniques involve mass ingestion of red wine, pizza and ice cream the night before a race. Based on my results, the erogenic properties of the substances appear to negligible at best.
I would be totally shocked and amazed if anyone in any of the lower categories did any sort of doping. It would take a lot of time and money to create a regimen, get the drugs, monitor the dosages, etc. Perhaps some people could use andro or actual steroids to create muscle mass for crits. At the lower levels, I am not even sure that EPO would have any sort of positive effect, given that most of us are gated by other issues. I am with RacerX in thinking that Red Bull, a few shots of espresso or a couple of antihistamines might be the most advanced form of doping we see locally.
As for gene doping, it is going to happen. There will always be an arms race between the people willing to break the rules and those trying to enforce them.
Gene
madcyclist68 wrote:there are obvious ramifications to this research.
maybe Tyler really didn't do it. maybe lots of other people do and will ultimately be able to use this research to avoid punishment. a variety of scenarios are present.
actually, as one of my professors just pointed out to me: Tyler was not accused of taking rhEPO. he was accused of taking transfused blood. so, my apologies for the mis-statement.
so, this research would not actually work to exhonerate Tyler, but it could be used by that other guy regarding the 1999 TdF- if it ever came to that.
-Tim
Huh? Joke, I guess. If you believe in DF (positive for steroids, not EPO) then at best you believe his story that he took something unknown, but from the ol' film canister. If I did that, I might trip for a month! I'd NOT take it hoping to recover... and for sure wouldn't take that shotgun approach if I knew I were competing in an arena with random testing. Heck, makes me think I better just dump my ol' film canister 'cause I takin' nothing I can't be certain of... and I won't be tested, it's just a matter of personal health & wellness. For what it's worth, I have no personal reason to doubt Dave's film cannister confession, but I do question the wisdom of such a silly/stupid decision. Why are talking about him again?
Re. gene doping (no offence to Gene Ragan), I think the stimulant class is much more likely to used/abused. Cheaper, accessible, less overall health risk especially if only done for the Sunday crit. Not that I advocate. Well, nothing stronger thean Peet's anyway.
X
If Tayler didn't do it ,Fuentes must be innocent too! IBELEIVE IN FUENTES!!! :roll: :roll: