Interesting fact:

Dura Ace cranks work quite well with SRAM drive train.

Ron

WarrenG wrote:My personal feeling is that we elect (in a not-so-good-way so far) the BOD members to act on our behalf, so I think we can let them do most of the voting on BOD/NCNCA matters.

I am not entirely comfortable with the current situation that allows non-elected (appointed) BOD members to have a vote on items where club delegates do not have a vote. This may be okay for now, given the individuals involved, but I don't think it's a good idea as a general policy to have an (relatively) unlimited number of BOD voters who were not elected by anyone.

However, the number of people elected to become voting BOD members should be more than just 4 people so that we can have the additional perspective and input that comes from having more voting BOD members.

While it's too early to begin the job of revamping/updating the NCNCA BOD's bylaws, and/or policies and guidelines, the issue is currently very pertinent.

I am still not convinced that the constitution permits appointees a vote on the Executive Committee (there technically is no BOD per se), but that could easily be cured (as I've suggested to Bill N) by simply having a confirmation election by the delegates, which would in fact make them "vice presidents" under the constitution. That is another reason I have disputed claims that the current constitution is flawed.

I agree with you, Warren, that having everything decided by an Executive Committee dominated by appointees more or less defeats the whole republican format of the corporation and disempowers the member teams, but for now I'm reconciled with letting the Executive Committee sort out these governance issues without my zebra-baying in the background. I expect that a new set of proposed bylaws will follow, and possibly also amendments to the constitution, and THAT'S when the debates regarding control of the NCNCA will properly be waged.

For now, as long as there's a mechanism by which the delegates can bring motions and vote, and a method by which delegates' voices and votes (even by internet) are properly considered, I'll be about as happy as I am capable of being.

In the past, a perception that everything was being handled smoothly, coupled with the usual bike racer apathy about politics was part of how the NCNCA BOD got to where we find it today. Obviously, we have a right to transparency, but I think we can get that transparency while still remaining reasonable and understanding about it.

It should not be lost on anyone that with the exception of the honorable Bob Liebold, I think (not certain) that every current member of the BOD (including appointees) was not on the BOD during the past few years.

It's nice that we can someday have good, real-time online access to the BOD meetings, but I'll point out that when Casey arranged for that in the past there were very few people showing an interest in it. I think Bill can sort out the technology when he has sufficient time and energy to do that, and we must be patient until then.

My personal feeling is that we elect (in a not-so-good-way so far) the BOD members to act on our behalf, so I think we can let them do most of the voting on BOD/NCNCA matters.

I am not entirely comfortable with the current situation that allows non-elected (appointed) BOD members to have a vote on items where club delegates do not have a vote. This may be okay for now, given the individuals involved, but I don't think it's a good idea as a general policy to have an (relatively) unlimited number of BOD voters who were not elected by anyone.

However, the number of people elected to become voting BOD members should be more than just 4 people so that we can have the additional perspective and input that comes from having more voting BOD members.

While it's too early to begin the job of revamping/updating the NCNCA BOD's bylaws, and/or policies and guidelines, the issue is currently very pertinent.

You will notice the loudest of silences from the Zebra pen for the past 48 hours.

I appreciate the apologies about the last meeting and how unempowered and uninformed it left many of the delegates feeling. I am very gratified about the disclosures made by Lorri and Tad over the past couple of days.

I sincerely hope that the "new" NCNCA will continue this trend of transparency and adherence to the rules. It seems, based on what I've heard since the meeting, that the "lesson" that I somewhat cynically used as the title of this thread has been well-learned by us all -- myself included.

I would like to say in my own defense that although I admit I've been a bit of a rabid dog since the meeting, that is precisely what the NCNCA has lacked for the past several years as things got slowly fubar'd. Disclosure, watchfulness, and accountability keep the train solidly on the track. My criticism was never meant to be malicious, and always had the best interests of the region and its member teams in mind.

Now lets' go ride some farm roads really really fast and impress the hell out of whatever cattle care to watch.

All in favor say aye. The ayes have it. Motion passed. Thanks for your hard work.

I second Bill’s motion.

Let these folks do the work that needs to get done and give them some time to try to get the house in order before you start throwing rocks. If you have constructive criticism and can present it without getting snarky, then by all means, post away.

EVERYONE,

Please can we have a forty-eight hour cease fire? Please? We appreciate the passion, concern, fears, questions, reasonable inquiries. Honest, we see it as all well intended folks.

I have personally spent about ninety hours on these issues in the last three weeks. Tad probably rivals me with his commitment. My fellow committee members Katherine and Chris close behind. These are well-meaning volunteers serving all of us.

This is not directed at ANY individual but is a general plea to everyone. We would assure you that we will not shy away from seeing this through and doing what is necessary to bring resolution.

Those of us doing the work are physically and mentally exhausted. We have been going at it for many, many days. We are all close to cracking. We would beg everyone to put away their swords for forty-eight hours.

We need rest. We need to focus. Please. Please.

I think it fair to say that as the Finance Committee Chair I am more in possession of facts than anyone and right now I don't care about blame or if you all look at me expecting progress but it is breaking my heart to see people I love and a sport I love being torn when we can be creative and practical and progressive.

This is NOT helping us fix things. We need a little quiet support right now. Everyone please keep your eye on the ball. The focus is resolution not blame fixation.

On Friday morning please feel free to resume. Wednesday and Thursday are no fly zones. PLEASE respect that. Again, I am BEGGING. We deserve that.

Peace to all,
Bill

P.S. If I don't ride my bike I am going to crack.

jeffreygalland wrote:My post was based on the incorrect assumption that the current problems were "personality" issues within the BOD and not the now disclosed financial issues and all of their implications.
Given the way some things have been expressed here, I think your "incorrect assumption" was a reasonable one, and also shared by other people.

A solution was possible and needed in 2007, 2008, 2009. The problem wasn't going to go away on its own. My understanding is that the NCNCA will now be paying an expert to reconstruct reliable information for 2005 using 2005 bank statements for the NCNCA accounts so that the proper filings can be done for that year and for the subsequent years. I believe this would have been a much less expensive and damaging solution if it had been implemented 3 years ago.

I have a lot of confidence that the current BOD members and their advisors will reconcile the financial and procedural issues before them, and that the NCNCA will derive benefit from the substantial time and energy that those people have invested in helping us to get out of this mess.

Yes Warren, I am referring to the previous BOD. I was typing my first reply as Lorri posted hers and I hadn't read it yet. My post was based on the incorrect assumption that the current problems were "personality" issues within the BOD and not the now disclosed financial issues and all of their implications. I'll shut up now and stay out of it.

Warren, I'm sure you're aware that you can't file a 990 without the previous years' filing. That's one of the failsafes that the IRS provides. The NCNCA never had data to file the 990 for 2006. I requested that data and when it wasn't provided to me I refused to "make it up" as had been suggested to me. I provided financial data for 2007 and 2008 to our CPA. But that was meaningless without the 2006 data and filing.

I've admitted that I failed the NCNCA. What I'm asking is that folks move on from that and help the current BOD create an organization that is legal and compliant and will serve the members of the district.

Can you do that, Warren?

Lorri

I edited my post because after Lorri edited her post above, mine was no longer relevant.

jeffreygalland wrote: That said, is the fact that taxes and accounting are delinquent back to 2005 a new discovery? (snip) ...Also, if this information has been known to the BOD (and it is hard for me to believe that it isn't) then I view it as a significant failure of the entire BOD for allowing this situation to progress uncorrected.
Perhaps you are talking about the previous BOD?

My interpretation of what has been made public is that the current BOD, that is, the people who are on it as of right now, would have had no (apparent) way of knowing about the financial and failure-to-file issues prior to their taking office in late 2009, and in Ron Castia's case, my guess is that he probably learned about these issues no earlier than when he announced his intention to run for the vacated VP post about a month ago.

The current BOD, upon learning of the issues after they took office, immediately began an investigation that continues now. I expect that they will institute several improvements to their bylaws, and/or develop comprehensive policy guidelines that will prevent a recurrence of the issues they're dealing with now. They have a lot to do in the coming months, and I'm sure they would much rather be investing their time and energy into something more closely related to bike racing.

Lorri,

I entered my previous post before I read yours. Thank you for your efforts.

I'll start by saying thank you to everyone who gives their time and energy to the NCNCA. It's a nearly thankless job I'm sure. That said, is the fact that taxes and accounting are delinquent back to 2005 a new discovery? If it isn't, I feel deceived as this is something that should have been disclosed before the election to replace Casey. Also, if this information has been known to the BOD (and it is hard for me to believe that it isn't) then I view it as a significant failure of the entire BOD for allowing this situation to progress uncorrected. My humble request to the BOD is to please organize yourselves and remedy this. Don't finger point. Don't dwell on past mistakes or shortcomings. Define what needs to be done. Make a plan to get it done. Remember that everyone involved is on the same team even if you have differing opinions. Thank you again for everything you do for all of us who race in NorCal.

I honestly think the current BOD is working to improve the NCNCA and I'm saddened not to be a part of that. I hope you’ll all be patient with this process. I don’t think any of the current board members realized what they were signing up for. The task of re-organizing the NCNCA is a daunting one. The on-going investigation is time-consuming and mentally trying. But in the long-term, I think we will see some great improvements in how the NCNCA serves the members in the district as well as some additional services to member clubs. I would ask for your patience and support of the BOD during the coming months.

I'm available to address any comments or questions you might have -- just email me directly.

Lorri

oh my god.

VeloKate wrote:...I just want to confirm that Lorri's resignation is not connected in any way to why this meeting was closed or to whatever it is that's going on that Tad says could potentially shut the NCNCA down by May, but for reasons that are completely private and personal.

It is the Treasurer's responsibility to provide the financial information that an accountant needs to prepare the tax returns, and then to followup with the accountant to make sure the returns are filed.

As Tad wrote in his treasurer report, "It regards matters that I, as Treasurer, oversee. NCNCA has not done several mandatory regulatory filings since 2005, and has significant gaps in its financial records. Because of these deficiencies, USA Cycling is temporarily withholding our funding, which is the source of about half of our revenue."

Lorri was the NCNCA treasurer during the last two years of that period (of not filing mandatory IRS filings).

The IRS doesn't like it when org's don't file their tax returns. And as Tad mentioned, the IRS will likely be charging the NCNCA some substantial penalties for not filing tax returns.

Thanks, Bill.

Okay, so to put it into layman's terms, the meeting was "closed" to the general public to adhere to NCNCA's long standing policies which have not been followed in quite some time.

Also, I just want to confirm that Lorri's resignation is not connected in any way to why this meeting was closed or to whatever it is that's going on that Tad says could potentially shut the NCNCA down by May, but for reasons that are completely private and personal.

I "think" these are the issues that people might be wondering about. I don't know. I certainly don't mean to stir trouble and I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just trying to get a clear picture, for absolutely no reason, other than I think a lot of people might appreciate the clarity, not just me. I'm quite content myself, and I'm thankful there are others to take on these jobs.

Thanks much!
Katie Kelly

ZebraMan wrote:.2 is actually 20 cents, Gregg.

It's a great idea to let "people" get things back on course, but it is not the responsibility of a self-appointed "board" to do it.

The NCNCA Constitution sets forth an Executive Committee consisting of the President, all elected VP's, Treasurer and Secretary. That is currently a three-person committee. The Executive Committee may decide the agenda for the membership meeting, but under the Constitution it is the Team Delegates who make the decisions regarding the running of the corporation. How are we to do so if we are prevented from voting, and the information for decision is withheld from us?

I agree, Gregg. Lets' get the NCNCA back on course. Lets' start by obeying the rules of the corporation.

By the way, was it really necessary to have the limited time allowed at the membership meeting completely consumed by the NorCal MTB League, rather than addressing some of the critical issues you are so concerned about? I'm sure glad I didn't drive three hours through traffic from Napa to Fremont to listen to 30 minutes on the League and then have the meeting summarily adjourned. Unfortunately, others did. And many others interrupted their lives to attend via internet, only to have our voices and votes ignored.

When will people be able to just say "We made a mistake, we're sorry, and we'll endeavor to follow the rules next time?"

.

self-appointed "board"?
There are currently 7 members on the board, 3 were elected and 4 were appointed by the former President. No one was self-appointed.

Jess, you stress the word "elected" before VP's. YOU added that.

To quote the Bylaws (Constitution):

"Article VI Officers

Section 1 Number of officers -- There shall be a minimum of four (sic) regular officers: a President, Vice Presidents, a Secretary, and a Treasurer. These officers shall form the Executive Board. At least three officers must be present at any one time in order to carry out the functions of the Executive Board. The Association may elect, and may empower the President or other officer to appoint, such other officers as the business of the corporation may require, each of whom shall hold office for such period, have such authority, and preform (sic) such duties as are provided in these Bylaws or as the Board may from time to time determine."

I volunteered to help out with the NCNCA because I am passionate about bike racing, not to get on a committee to look into the finances of past years, not for some power trip, and certainly not to argue with people like you about how we're doing it!

As VP-Road, I am one of the Board members and I know that my fellow Board members and I have been and will continue to work hard for the NCNCA membership.

I'm sorry if anyone felt shut-out, but last night's closed Board meeting was a necessary 1st step to set things right. We're not trying to do anything covert, we're just trying to get the NCNCA back in working order so we can all get back on our bikes.

Chris Phipps
NCNCA VP-Road

Kate,

A full summary of what happened and why is summarily contained in Tad Borek's (NCNCA Treasurer) report today. It is at the Yahoo Group File section:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NCNCA/files/

It took time to summarize, agree and report a lot of information that was originally reported last night between about 8:00 and 8:30 PM.

Bill

Like I'm sure a lot of people are, I'm confused about what just happened.

So far I know that:

a) Lorri Lee Lown has resigned as President of the NCNCA

b) There was a meeting, but the conditions of this meeting are at this time vague. I've never been to one, I don't know how these work, but I'm gleaning that this time, there was a change in how it was handled, that it wasn't as public or open as meetings have been in the past. In defense of this "change," apparently this meeting is actually how they should have been run all this time, but hadn't been, until now, all of a sudden.

Am I getting this right? It's just peculiar timing, I will say that.

Can someone just give a run down of what just happened?

Thanks much,
Katie Kelly

.2 is actually 20 cents, Gregg.

It's a great idea to let "people" get things back on course, but it is not the responsibility of a self-appointed "board" to do it.

The NCNCA Constitution sets forth an Executive Committee consisting of the President, all elected VP's, Treasurer and Secretary. That is currently a three-person committee. The Executive Committee may decide the agenda for the membership meeting, but under the Constitution it is the Team Delegates who make the decisions regarding the running of the corporation. How are we to do so if we are prevented from voting, and the information for decision is withheld from us?

I agree, Gregg. Lets' get the NCNCA back on course. Lets' start by obeying the rules of the corporation.

By the way, was it really necessary to have the limited time allowed at the membership meeting completely consumed by the NorCal MTB League, rather than addressing some of the critical issues you are so concerned about? I'm sure glad I didn't drive three hours through traffic from Napa to Fremont to listen to 30 minutes on the League and then have the meeting summarily adjourned. Unfortunately, others did. And many others interrupted their lives to attend via internet, only to have our voices and votes ignored.

When will people be able to just say "We made a mistake, we're sorry, and we'll endeavor to follow the rules next time?"

BTW - Welcome to the Forum. Should have used a pseudonym.

Obviously there is some shake up going on at NCNCA - for whatever reason... We all know who is on the board and if you know any of them personally, you know they are working super hard to make NCNCA what it should be. These are people volunteering their time to do this. Standing on the outside demanding answers to questions you may not even know valid just seems to undermine our governing body. If you choose to continue to do so, just be prepared to take the wheel and suffer the same from the district members who have been trained as the proper way to progress. If we keep pounding on them, I'd think many would just finally say to hell with this and walk- no one guarantees the 2010 NCNCA race calendar if these people just throw up their hands and walk away - not like we have not seen two of the top people choose this path.
My position is to let them take a breather and respond once the board gets it all back on course.

My .2

Thanks

WarrenG wrote:

What evidence is there that anything that needed a vote (by anyone) occurred during the closed session?

Lorri resigned as President long before the meeting took place.

I agree that the NCNCA Constitution needs some major overhauling/updating, and my impression is that the current BOD will spend a lot of time addressing that need.

My friend, you miss the point.

Evidence? How ironic. It was closed session and without minutes!! How can you ask for evidence?!?

It so happens that as a former candidate I am aware of some of the issues discussed. I was hoping that the so-called board, that is not in fact the executive committee envisioned in the constitution, would be open and forthright with the membership. They were not.

Lorri did not resign "long before" the meeting. Do you not think the membership deserves to know what compelled that decision?? It was directly related to the health and soundness of the corporation. It was not a private or personal matter.

In fact, Warren, it was announced at the meeting that the so-called board had made decisions regarding the 3 motions I had properly brought before it. That's evidence. They shut down the meeting before new business or public comment. That's evidence. And they never considered the votes or comments of delegates attending via web, and that was just downright wrong.

I disagree with you about the constitution. But whether it should be amended is not the point. It must be followed until two-thirds of the membership amend it, not when a few people decide to simply ignore it. It is for US to decide.

Finally, the so-called board isn't supposed to be taking care of the issues, and we are not obliged to blindly trust that. WE RUN THE NCNCA.

I can't speak for anyone's reasons for resigning, that would be inappropriate and out of place. But, I do know that they are unrelated. Each individual has their own reasons, and the right to keep those reasons to themselves if they chose to.

Let's give them some respect and just thank them for their contribution while letting them get on with their lives gracefully.

Ron

WarrenG wrote:
Lorri resigned as President long before the meeting took place.

What is going on here?? This is the second elected official to resign in the last few weeks. Not to mention that these were the top two positions. What new "issues" cropped up that they each were not aware of when they ran? I can understand one person, but two?? This certainly does not reflect well on the District.

djconnel wrote:When the president vacates, the VP doesn't ascend to that position?

If Obama threw in the towel, it would be "Mr. President" to Mr. Biden....

It might have been Mrs President Pallin...

My understanding is that the elected VP (Ron Castia) becomes the "acting" President.

ZebraMan wrote:... there is no provision for decisions beyond the setting of the agenda to be decided in closed session. ...there was no disclosure of what took place in the closed session to the membership,

What evidence is there that anything that needed a vote (by anyone) occurred during the closed session?

Lorri resigned as President long before the meeting took place.

I agree that the NCNCA Constitution needs some major overhauling/updating, and my impression is that the current BOD will spend a lot of time addressing that need.

When the president vacates, the VP doesn't ascend to that position?

If Obama threw in the towel, it would be "Mr. President" to Mr. Biden....

djconnel wrote:Slightly off topic, but who's president?

That position is currently vacant.

Slightly off topic, but who's president?

ZebraMan wrote:
What occurred at the meeting tonight was an absolutely ridiculous sham.

Please fill us in ....what is this all about?

I agree.

Plus, it might not even be legal under California law.

== Eric