Eddie also liked to say... "My boys are tough" (graavely voice). What a fantastic character.

Mad Axeman wrote:One more idea:

Ben Hur style 200 Meter drag race.

There are a few riders around here that might look good in drag, but I seriously doubt that I would be one of 'em. I'd probably traumatize the locals and put future permits at risk.

I remember that 79 Fort Mason race Calvin refers to. Lemond and Robert Ford were off the front for a long time in that race and I don't think Robert took a single pull. Since you could see the full course from the start finish line you could watch the full race develop. As Greg and Robert came out of the final turn they started sprinting. Robert tried coming around Greg and Greg sprinted in a straight line, that happen to be a diagonal across the finishing straight. Eddie C was sitting on the top of his step ladder at the start finish line in a parking area. There was no curb separating the race course from where Eddie's ladder was sitting. Luckily for Eddie C Robert Ford backed down since Greg looked like he had no concern what so ever about taking Robert right into the ladder that Eddie C was sitting on. Amazingly enough Channel 5 TV news came out and shot some footage of the Junior race which made it onto the local news that night. I think that was my 1 and only time I was on TV for a whole second or so.

Now you see Mark is trying to give me credit for something I didn't do. As best as I can remember it think it was Bob Muzzy who suggested that BBC adopt the phrase after the demise of the Flying Wheels Crit. We may have to look to He who knows all Nor Cal racing history ( or just about all) Tom Simonson for the answer about who brought the phrase over to BBC.

NorCal

...and another view from Haystack himself.

The first time I heard "no crybabies" in a bike race context was at the Eddy C "Flying Wheels Crit" in SF about 1978. Eddy C ("7 Valado, 7" and other special coaching language) would line the racers up at the start line and give race instructions. Somewhere toward the end of the few minutes of instructions (some made more sense that others), Eddy C would conclude with, "and there'll be no crybabies in my race, crybabies go home."

One epic fight in maybe 1979 at Fort Mason was when Lemond lapped the field with Robert Ford. Ford sat on and tried to beat Lemond in the final spirit, Greg almost put Ford into the curb. "NO Crybabies" for sure.

Eddy C sure added some color to the '70's scene and I have found memories of the somewhat punch-drunk ex-boxer who loved bicycle racing.

Calvin

Casey,

Here's Mark Walsh's story. Let's share Kevin's prize with Mark for his lengthy prose. Its surely brings back memories.

"We don't need no crybabies" came from the San Francisco Wheelman's Eddie Carvalho. He was the promoter of the Flying Criterium as well as the long-time ringleader of that club.

The prize list was sparce and he didn't like people who complained. One year I got sixth place and prizes only went five deep. I got on his good side forever by thanking him for a well promoted race. Fifth place got an Italian Salami that looked like something someone would find on Fisherman's Wharf.

Eddie was proud of his race's heritage. One year it was Mount and Pringle and another it was LeMond and Ford. Connie Carpenter once rode nicely in the Senior 1/2 pack there. Jacquie Phelan made her "road debut" there in 1981 with the toy duck glued to the top of her Bell helmet

"Coach Eddie" had been a boxer in New York in the 40s and 50s. It was rumored that he had been a Golden Gloves champion. Some of his behaviors suggested that he might have sustained a few too many head injuries. His "boys" had a playbook in which he has assigned numbers to various tactics. He was known to stand somewhere on a crit course and yell at his riders "Number seven! Number seven!" And then there was the infamous "Double Jump" (never figured out that one.)

Mike Williams, Tim Imai, and Paul Middlestadt can likely tell much more. I believe it was Casey Kerrigan who picked up on the saying when he was the BBC President and soon had those cool, all blue socks.

Cheers--Mark Walsh

Would like to thank Mark for his insight. I believe Mark is the only one who has never let his membership lapse since the forming of the BBC.

One more idea:

Ben Hur style 200 Meter drag race.

Two person team, combined minimum weight of 335 lbs.
We use either bike trailers or some type of sled.
Two or 3 up heats, no drafting, stay in your own lane.
Teams can distribute the weight as they like, but the advantage would be to have most of it on the puller.

I can think of a particular 60 minute time slot to put it in next year.

And the answer is...

casey wrote:...the batteries on the megaphone would tend to be low on power with a good portion of the race day left.

What is, a metaphor for aging bike racers?

Kevin gets the prize. The only thing he left out was the fact that the batteries on the megaphone would tend to be low on power with a good portion of the race day left.

casey wrote:Yea but where did the BBC steal the whole no crybabies thing from??? To know the answer to this one you need to have been around Nor Cal racing for a while :)

Eddie C! Flying wheels crit. The ultimate parking lot criterium.

Standing up on his step ladder with a megaphone acting as announcer. It went kind of like this:

"gra gra gra gra gra... Greg Lemond did my race! gra gra gra gra gra... No Cry Babies! gra gra gra gra gra... Jump! gra gra gra gra gra... Double Jump!"

I swear!

Kevin Metcalfe
Flying Wheels Crit in 1986

Atta Boy, Casey! Finally! He CRACKS and gives us one instead of the official breakdown!

Yea but where did the BBC steal the whole no crybabies thing from??? To know the answer to this one you need to have been around Nor Cal racing for a while :)

78busman wrote:Jr's in this line for your rollout.
Clydsdale in this line for your weigh-in.
Skinny Climbers Dudes in this line.

:D

...and crybabies go home.

Theme song for the BHRR

Jr's in this line for your rollout.
Clydsdale in this line for your weigh-in.
Skinny Climbers Dudes in this line.

:D

Mad Axeman wrote:Next year at the EBC crit we are already seriously considering a category for the miniature pony (anti-Clydesdale).

Weight limit will be 145 lbs.

Ron

Brilliant! :D

Next year at the EBC crit we are already seriously considering a category for the miniature pony (anti-Clydesdale).

Weight limit will be 145 lbs.

Ron

Jess wants a race every weekend that offers some kind of category that he can win.

And Jess hasn't even tried the track yet, where guys his size are all over the place and the fun lasts longer than any criterium.

well my purpose wasn't to get everyone all riled up...ok I lied. Nothing personal and I actually don't have a problem with the clydsdale category in theory, I'm just not one to try and change the "rules" in order to improve my chances of winning. I didnt' like how I was going up hill, so I stopped stuffing my fat arse full of food I shouldn't be eating. I have to say, I like being thin for the benefit of being HEALTHY first and for performance second.

This thread is just like the one regarding changing the masters categories so that the weaker riders can have a chance of winning...and I say if that's the case what did you really win? Would you like to race with the ladies next? (no offense ladies)

I realize a clydsdale category could actually be fairly entertaining and i'm not necessarily against it..but in the end is it really that satisfying to be the fastest fat guy?

If it's about having fun, then go out and have fun regardless of how you finish...or train harder and eat better so you don't need to change the rules to have a chance...or stick to the crits like all the other fat guys.

not taking this seriously...

justin wrote:this sport is still about watts per kilogram and aerodynamics.

Your example shows a guy winning Cat's Hill with power to weight ratio that isn't as good as strong, smaller guys in the race, except when the effort is only 30 seconds long. Do the math and you'll see. The same generally holds true for sprinters on the track and in criteriums. Absolute max power becomes more relevant than power to weight ratio.

On a flat course watts to weight ratio matters even less because gravity is not much of a factor.

ZebraMan wrote:Who does it hurt if the big guys are given a race cat at the Hill Climbs so we can body slam for a while and then go drink beer? It doesn't make your own sacrifice any less noble, or your self-trumpet any less strident. But it would be fun for some dudes.

This suggestion isn't getting any less ridiculous.

It would hurt whichever legitimate category you replaced, (who are we kidding-- it'd be the cat 3/4 women). We'd be replacing a more dedicated field with a less dedicated one, so we'd be hurting the overall competitiveness of the racing itself.

If the issue is really "fun" for said "dudes," you could always just, you know, race for fun and stop expecting results when you're competing against guys who train harder and eat smarter.

And let me point out once again: there are *plenty* of big guys killing everyone at local races, sometimes even the hilly ones. Don't hear them asking for a special Giant Horse Category... Is this about fun, or is this about hiding from the competition?

Hey Sub,
If there is a betting pool out there for the next race I will place my bet on the ZEBRA! If you really want to win that one, you had better get into the pool and bet against yourself as well. Now...what were those odds again?

Ah, yes. The nobility of the martyr. I guarantee that you are not a 45+, or you'd have learned to keep the passion for sport and the desire for indulgences in blissful harmony. (Like Chris Black)

What is the attraction the human race seems to have for suffering? I just don't get it. I'm going to suffer myself skinny so that I can suffer up hill climbs?!? Oh, yeh ... Measure me up a semi-portion of rabbit food, Sub. And maybe if I really deprive and emaciate myself, I'll win a t-shirt with a spelling error at Pine Flat next year.

Here's what you've forgotten with your self-satisfied gospel of "commitment" and "discipline"...
MOST FUN WINS!! Remember?
Who does it hurt if the big guys are given a race cat at the Hill Climbs so we can body slam for a while and then go drink beer? It doesn't make your own sacrifice any less noble, or your self-trumpet any less strident. But it would be fun for some dudes.

Or we could do the Harrison Bergeron egalitarian method ..... weights.

yeah, we could call it the "no discipline or commitment" category. Going from someone who had a hard time getting up the hills (5'9" 172 lbs) to someone who goes up them pretty good (150 lbs) I have some advice..mix in a salad.

What's the requirement, 200lbs or more?

Just FYI, Cat's Hill was won by a "clydesdale" yesterday. Snelling was won in an 8k solo effort from a very small, very aero rider.

Sure, little guys do well in hills and big guys do well in flats, but this sport is still about watts per kilogram and aerodynamics. Maybe what you're really asking for is a category for guys with poor power/weight ratios?

Jess,

I come out to Snelling and Merco to be humiliated by you big, StRoNg ClYdSdAlE's and I expect you to return the favor at Wente, Pescadero, Hamilton and the likes.

We could co-exist happily at the Death Ride....I pace you up the 15,000 ft of climbing and I read Chaucer behind you as we plummet the same 15K.

pAuL

Jess,

You should know me better. If you want a clydesdale category in a hilly event then by all means include that category in the next hilly event you promote otherwise I don't really support category inflation, especially when it leads to longer race days.

This would be pretty fun...

Come to think about it, it would be fun to actually ride behind somebody who I can actually draft, not some small vacuum-less rider that falls over then they sneeze :)

Does this mean we'll have to offer hobby-horse categories at the track?