Jess,

Warren's doing his flying TT in Penn but I'm starting to like your idea's even more. Maybe there IS some VOS/MS love to spread around. The 1/2/3 vs. 3/4/5 suggestion makes it a little more difficult, but challenging for the newbie 45+s but it's why we race. Look at how many good riders are in the 45+4/5 races. There's not much chance of upgrading to a 3 due to field sizes and why, unless you want to go to Nationals.

Jess, we need to spoon.

Paul :wink:

Okay, now we're back full circle to my FAVORITE TOPIC!
Get ready, Warren...

The answer to 78Busman's issue is clear:

Offer a 45+ 3/4/5 field with the shorter distance, and a 45+ 1/2/3/4 with the longer one. I'm sure that all the 45+ 1/2's would welcome the additional lap, since they're so damned buff. And then the 45+ 3/4's can choose to race endurance or speed. And furthermore, guys like 78busman won't be obliged to race against the ubers, or against 18 MS/VOS.

It's clear that Bob ackowledges that there is sufficient population to split the 45's, and of course it's more fair to the 3's, 4's and 5's to do so, so they don't have to race against the ubers or do the extra lap. Recognize that the census of the 45's is increasing every year, and will continue to do so as the Lance-era age.

For me, I go wherever NotVino goes. I'm a lackey, a peon, his biiiiiiiiiyaaaatch.

:P As a 45+ (50) Racer. (Cat4) Racing Road races at
distance is not an issue. Sometimes trying to keep up
with the Cat 1/2/3's sometimes can be tough. But I
feel what you chase, makes you stronger. It would
be nice if they just placed the 4/5's separately.

Bernie S wrote:Not that I'm a road racer by any means, but I LOVE the shorter ones.

Nardo has my proxy, as does Jess. That gives them 4 votes a piece I believe.
And I'm looking forward to the Colbrio/Smith Texas Cage Match :)

Whatever gets decided, it's been a heck of a year in the geezer plus, hasn't it? Whole lotta class out there.

Not that I'm a road racer by any means, but I LOVE the shorter ones. It gives me a chance to come out and play with the guys I'm usually doing battle with in crits, and I'm not sure I could withstand another lap of Dunnigan anyway.
So, for me, the short ones are cool and I'll stay away from the long ones. Like a couple others have stated, there seems to be a good variety already.
Madera almost killed me. Yeah, I know, lose some weight.

One idea is to have the M45 4/5 be a shorter distance and the M45 open to equal the M35 123 or E3 distance.

I agree with the Zebraman. The long California/Nevada season provides us with different weather conditions, a exxxtensive variety of road and crit courses, hilly, flat, rollers, gravel, and potholes. Let's race hard for 50 miles and if it's the miles you want, go for a long, hard, cool down ride after your race...or if there's two flights that day, race in the morning and afternoon.

Paul :wink:

I don't care.

:shock:

No opinion from Zebraman? A sure sign of the apocalypse to come.

I thought about this a lot after Dunnigan and San Ardo, and I concluded that I like the variety of races during the year. We have some long flat ones, some long steep ones, some short steep ones and lots of crits. A variety is a good thing. If Dunnigan, San Ardo, Cantua Creek, etc... are like long crits, so be it. There are different tactics at play for that kind of race than for others. I don't feel deprived.

Frankly, adding a lap to any of the flat RR's isn't going to change much. People are just going to pace it out, hide in the pack, and play "hide the sprinter" for an additional lap. The game is still going to be played out on the final lap. Unless there's a big early break and a block, and I guarantee that no one in the "hind-quarter" group at Dunnigan wanted another lap of that Sunday ride.

Not to mention that adding an additional lap favors the team that can line up 11 out of a 30-rider field.
:roll: More-come Stack-me :roll:

Quote:I'd agree with Bill's point on the 45's being safer than the 3's BTW. There are some good riders in there, but some of those kids have little self preservation, and an even smaller knowledge of physics. We may not always be perfect, but I haven't seen a 45 ride straight into a barricade yet.

I'm assuming you mean the guy at Burlingame a few years ago who ride straight off the course into a garbage can while off the front. I think that was in a cat 4 race. Luckily he was OK.
Bill

I'll vote for longer road races.

Some people like long races, some like short races. The riders that want short races already have dozens of flat crits to choose from.

Rick M.

casey wrote:don't forget there there may be a number ( a large number even) of 45+ racers who don't want longer race distances.

I'm trying to figure out how that extra lap in the 45's got voted in at Challenge. Apparently we need more 3+ hour climbing races?

With the advent of the 45 4/5 class at some races, it might not be a stretch to add some miles onto the 45 open at those events. Some of the flatter races (excluding the Dunnigan missle testing session) just kind of become slightly longer crits.

That being said I'm turning my voting proxy over to my teammates. They do all the work.

I'd agree with Bill's point on the 45's being safer than the 3's BTW. There are some good riders in there, but some of those kids have little self preservation, and an even smaller knowledge of physics. We may not always be perfect, but I haven't seen a 45 ride straight into a barricade yet.

don't forget there there may be a number ( a large number even) of 45+ racers who don't want longer race distances. They may be perfectly happy with shorter distances since these fit better into their training schedules. Also don't forget about some of the 55+ riders who often get mixed in with the 45+ races. These riders might not be to thrilled with longer race distances.

A few comments:
I have been racing the 3's in any events where I don't find the distance to my liking in the 45's. I'd prefer to race the 45's more consistently for a couple of reasons: it's a safer field than the 3's, and I like the idea of competing against the same group of guys on a regular basis. It's fun to see the MS/VOS rivalry that has developed, and I think it's because they race against each other all season. The 3's isn't like that, the stronger guys upgrade and it just doesn't feel the same as the 35+ and 45+ categories, not as much team tactics maybe. Did I mention the safety factor? For me it's not as simple as "race another category if you don't like the 45's".
Bill

Follow up (sorry for the double post)

Example:
Mt. Bike categories only use age groups up to Expert. Semi-Pro and above is open age.

If I want to race my age group, I would have to downgrade to Expert.

I think there is some wisdom to that set up.

-R

They can still do E3. If you are 45+ and moving through the ranks, then it seems more logical to race your category rather than your age.
E3s are a little slower than the 1/2/3s, yet faster (typically) than the 4s, and faster than the 35+ 4/5.

This is one of the few areas where Casey and I agree, if you are at the ability level of a 1 or 2, race your cat. It's not supposed to be a trophy of days gone by. If you are a 1 or a 2 but cannot be competitive in that field, downgrade.

-R

I understand (and generally agree with) the argument that a 45+ racer usually has other options if he or she is dissatisfied with the distance of the 45+race. Even so, we should not overlook the recent influx of "elderly" riders into our fair sport. The 46 yo who just upgraded to Cat 3 and has only been racing a year or two should have the option of doing a longer race (i.e., at least 60 miles) with his peer group, rather than getting his doors blown off in the 35+(1,2,3) race.

How about the Everst Challenge...
http://everestchallenge.com/
206 miles for all...

Steve O wrote:I agree with Joe Racer. There are options. Just do the 35+ or the 3s when the distance and topography suit you.
AGREE!!!
If you want a long hard race do the Challenge race this weekend! :shock:

I was thinking the same thing during the 45+ race. I mentioned it to a few guys. I think a 3rd lap on that course would be good.

I agree with Joe Racer. There are options. Just do the 35+ or the 3s when the distance and topography suit you.

If you want longer distances then race the Senior Groups. Masters racing should be for those that are past their prime and don't have time to train as much...
1-2s - 80 to 120 miles
3s - 60 to 85 miles
35+ - 50 to 75 miles - If a 1-2 or 3, who happens to be over 35, wants a longer distance then they race the Senior 1-2 or 3 groups.
45+ - 40 to 60 miles - Same - If want longer race 35+ or 3s or 1-2s
...