guess I should have used one of those smiley faces to express my emotions. Which one represents facetiousness... this technology stuff is way beyond my ability to comprehend. :wink:

SWick wrote: Public transportation is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.
What's so difficult to comprehend? If a train or bus is going from where you are to where you're going, then it's often more economical than driving yourself. I live and work in SF. Parking downtown is $20 a day. An unlimited muni pass is $45 a month (provided by my employer). A streetcar comes by my apartment building every 6 minutes or so, parking in my neighborhood is very scarce, so public transit makes sense here.

Of course if you have lived in the 'burbs your whole life this might be difficult to comprehend.

CPhipps wrote:WarrenG wrote:My parents have a Prius hybrid and 55+mpg on the freeway is normal, but there's barely enough room inside for two riders, their bikes and all of their other race-related gear-but no room for "soigneurs" or groupies. So that's about 27mpg per rider.

Actually you can say that it's 110 rider miles per gallon,
or the equivalent of 2 riders in separate cars that each get 110 miles per gallon.

Ichiwawa! You're right. I like the school bus idea more and more.

I'm driving my car to Land Park... then on Sunday I'm driving my car to Bariani... then on Monday I'm driving my car to work. Public transportation is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.

Casey,

Funny you should mention AMTRAK. In 1981, while living in San Diego, I took AMTRAK to compete in a downtown Los Angeles crit and Trailways to Santa Cruz for the University RR. And when I wanted to train on the velodrome in San Diego, I would either take the bus or ride the 17 mile trip with my track bike over my shoulders, do intervals, and then ride home. Sometimes I rode to SDSU (13 miles one way) for classes, though by that time I had a reliable car.

Neither weather nor darkness would stop me from relying on the bicycle as my mode of transportation. The end result was an incredible fitness, that I have yet to duplicate. Yet the commute by bicycle continues.

Diablo Hill Climb isn't that far from BART. Also Berkeley Hills isn't to far from BART. A number of people take BART to the Early Birds.

and Menlo Park is just a short ride from the MP CalTrain (which connects to BART in Millbrae).

or a short ride over the Dumbarton Bridge, where you could connect with BART.

Ronde van Brisbeen races are fairly close to either Balboa Park or Daly City (if you want a warm-up over San Bruno Mtn.) BART stations.

Also, Burlingame and Lafayette crits are close to BART.

Now if they only could extend BART to Milton (Copperopolis). :D

Here you go George
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Route/Ver...

The Amtrak San Joaquins route. You can catch the train in Martinez and go to Merced, Fresno and Hanford. No luck if you are interested in Visalia though

How many races are actually within riding distance of home, or public transit? There's the Giro, Fremont, Albany, Pleasanton, that are BART accessible. The Berkeley TTT could be ridden to from Orinda BART. It may become almost cheaper to go public transit than take the van or SUV. This also saves on parking issues and helps the environment. So does carpooling whenever possible.

Yet the only one I could ride to is Martinez, but my daughter is racing that day and needs to be driven there. Or she could take the bus. When I raced Superweek in the 1980s, I rode my bike to ALL the different venues. And a weekly twilite series at Fiesta Island in San Diego would sometimes mean riding 22 miles to the race, racing an hour and riding home.

WarrenG wrote:My parents have a Prius hybrid and 55+mpg on the freeway is normal, but there's barely enough room inside for two riders, their bikes and all of their other race-related gear-but no room for "soigneurs" or groupies. So that's about 27mpg per rider.

Actually you can say that it's 110 rider miles per gallon,
or the equivalent of 2 riders in separate cars that each get 110 miles per gallon.

The more people you have the more rider miles per gallon you're getting.

I can take 4 riders (including myself) and 4 bikes in my minivan that gets 21 mpg, so that's only 84 rider miles per gallon.

My parents have a Prius hybrid and 55+mpg on the freeway is normal, but there's barely enough room inside for two riders, their bikes and all of their other race-related gear-but no room for "soigneurs" or groupies. So that's about 27mpg per rider.

Or you can solve two thirds of the problem:

http://forums.makezine.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=17

One-third of the problem is solved.

Assuming we can find a way to bargain for the time on the home front,
Can we get a 45+/55+ category?

Hadn't thought of that, but Todd makes an excellent point.
Too many Valley races all packed into a very short period of time.

Might be a good idea to sprinkle the long drives rather than clump them.
Many are thinking of the $90.00 gas bill, potentially a $90+ hotel bill if you don't want to drive 6 hours in 1 day, all for a a race measured in minutes.
That my racing budget for the month, I need a little more bang for the buck.

Bring back the Raymond Road race, or even the pancake flat circuit. Or, bring back the stage race, it was very well done, only had that one minor issue of crit scheduling, but that is an easy fix.

Ron

It's not a single drive....it is 4 weekends of drives back to back. When is a guy gonna mow the lawn? Very few of us race for prize money. Hard for this liberal to take, but competition via the unregulated free market determines what races survives. Unfortunately we often chose quantity and ease over quality.

What those two races have in common that matters to 90% of racers is that they're relatively far away from all the major population centers, and the fields tend to be very small. So, they skip a weekend of racing and wait for the next race that's less than an hour or two away and will likely have reasonably-sized fields.

Z-Man- You can keep say'n all you want about
plead'n the 5th. Bottom line is... It's great to
have you back! No more... Mummmmmmmm!
We look forward to MH , and we always look
forward to you...

Q: What do CVC and Hanford have in common besides good money, good course and challenging geography?

Answer: No 45+ category.

I love CVC. Hell, I won the GC last time I raced there (and the last time it was offered). The King Arthur cog-in-marble trophy on top of my TV is one of my proudest possessions. I begged my man Jon E. to bring back the nice, flat RR, and to offer a 45+.

I promise that I'll make the drive to either or both races next year if they do. And the recent sell-outs in the 45's show that a lot of others will too.

Oops, I forgot .... Mummmmmmmmmmmm

I think there was some great competition and racing to be seen at CVC. Small fields yes but no "lollygaggin" style of racing. Some fierce attacks were to be seen.

Thanks for the entertainment. I had a great time,

Will

All valid reasons.
But nothing new for the Tower Crit. NRC status for the past few years has bolstered pro classes, plus good fields for Masters123 and a dedicated Cat2 race. But other fields have been small every year.

CVC really knocks themselves out to put on a first-class race in Fresno. And, as mentioned, the extra 40 miles down 99 from Merced probably takes no longer than trekking across country roads to the start areas of Snelling and Merco.

But one thing that always happens to these Southern valley events is that promoters in the Bay area or Sac-North always jump on the date and pull a lot of riders. Central valley races never seem to get a weekend all to themselves, unlike many of the major Bay area events. Hanford Crit is the same deal-- a sweeeet criterium with 3 times the prizelist of most races, yet it's always up against something else closer to the Bay that draws many away.

Which is only natural. Who wants to drive at all, really?
But then, who wants to race in the rain, either?

Man what a cool race and atmosphere. I won't be so quick to bash Fresno again. Despite the low numbers, the pro/1 race was FAST and HARD! I think the low turn out is from no NRC status and the fact that for an entire month, races in the southern central valley (from snelling to visalia) is just too much travel for most of us working stiffs. All the races are great, but I know I'm doing land park instead of visiala only because I want to spend less time in the car.

For the under P/1 and Mstr 1/2/3 racers, we had the TT and Crit in 07. Raced both days and had a fabulous time last year. Met Dave Towell and some of the Pro's. The Downtown veniew was great. Was surprised how many people came out to see the race. Not sure what happened this year. I couldn't make it for financial reasons. But I did notice the registration was low. Maybe in 09 we can get the TT back. Make it an Omnium.

I can only give my reasons for not doing this race and assume that some other people felt similarly.

First, it is a long way to drive for a 1 hour race. I drive long distances for almost every race, but it is better when it is for 2 races. If there had been another race on saturday in the general area, it would have been more appealing.

Second, there was no women's category (3) for me to compete in. So I saw no point in going, and my husband who races Pro/1/2 and Masters 35+ in crits, chose not to go also so we could to something together. By excluding approximately 2/3 of the registered women racers in our district, this may have affected quite a few potential men and women entrants.

This is not a new issue for the race. I suspect people are used to only having to drive an hour or less for most of their races. And with gas at $3.50/gallon...

I was hoping for the Stage Race again.

Was very bummed to not see the Raymond Road Race on the schedule.

The CVC Stage Race last year was really great.

Maybe it will come back.

Ron

It was a really great race, one of the best I've been to in some time! Definitely a do-again, and I highly recommend it! I was wondering about the small field sizes as well, maybe the Berkeley TTT that day, and the Menlo Park GP on Saturday, had an impact?

Great job, CVC!! I'll be back next year and bring more of my team with me!

JQ
VSRT