Primes have value to those of us (me) who are rarely "in the money", and can to traded or sold for something you'd rather have. I finished 8th in a crit in San Diego last year and won two primes--a hat and some socks. I sold the hat to someone for $20 and still use the socks.

Cougar Mountain won't get roadies if they charge adult entry fees and only give junior prizes.

Mad Axeman wrote:Peter,
You are missing the jest of what is being said here.

Actually, I think I got the "jest" although I may have missed the "gist." :lol:

Particularly in the Masters, I think prizes are irrelevant. If a skinny, relative newbie like myself cracks the top 10 in the M123 at a big NorCal crit like SR, I'll be stoked. Getting $15 or a pair of socks won't change that a bit.

But, like I said, perhaps it's because I'm kinda new to the sport and it's still all so dang exciting!

Anyway, let's agree to disagree - but come on out and let's see if we can't make SR more than "the same race on different streets." I know there will be at least one new face more than capable of shaking things up, and even if I'm still gassed from Coyote Creek, I'll do my best to stir the pot.

btw, if we really want to make races different, how about having upgrade points go more than 6 deep? Now that would get me excited!

-a guy with 4 top 10's this year but no tshirts and no points. :x

Peter,
You are missing the jest of what is being said here.

It's not about the prizes exclusively. It's a package deal, the sum of all the parts.
Good Course, well structured event, good prize list.

Remove one of those elements and you start removing motivation.

When you race in the masters 1/2/3, there are several likely suspects for the win. Yeah, flukes can happen, but the crits all pretty much work out the same in the end. That negates the course aspect because it becomes the same race on different streets.
Ah, but add in some depth to the prize list and you change the race. As I said previously, there are quite a few riders who can break into the top ten, but may never see the top 5.
Race like that long enough and a little extra motivation goes a long way.

It doesn't have to be anything special, hell I'll sprint for some socks.
It's about the fun factor, not the value. A reward for efforts, even if it's a trinket, peaks the fun meter.

Savvy?
-R

Perhaps it's because I've only been racing three years so I haven't really gotten jaded yet, but prize lists don't affect my decision to race.

It is, after all, amateur racing. :wink:

But then I'm one of those weirdos who loves VeloPromo races - good courses, good competition, good times. If I get a tshirt it's a nice bonus, but I'm out there to try and win - not pad my wallet. I'm not suggesting that all races should be as chintzy as Cougar Mtn (medals? top 3 only? and I have to pay for parking?) but just throwing it out there that I've never heard one of my buddies say, "Not doing that one - prizes don't go deep enough."

Nor have I met anyone who didn't start racing, or stopped racing, because the prizes weren't good enough. Want to grow the sport? Support cool races like San Rafael - downtown, under the lights, kids events, junior events, good purse to attract the real professionals (the ones who are supposed to get paid.) I'll be there.

Again I don't think we need to ( or should) eliminate all primes, just cut back on the number per race in some cases. I also don't think the value of any pre arranged prime should exceed the value of last prize position gets for the race in question. I've seen a number of cases where the value of a pre-arranged prime is worth well more than even the winning rider was going to get in prizes. Now there really isn't anything you can do is a spectator walks p race day and wants to give out a large prime but I think the pre-arranged primes ( ie the ones the promoter knows they have before the race in question starts) shouldn't be worth more than someone who places in the money gets.

Actually, we couldn't hear the primes announced in the 3's race. That's why we were rolling across. I actually won a prime (or two?) during my two-man break with Julian, but I never knew it, so I neglected to collect. (I'll take some of that good schwag you have left over, guys!)

There was a cacophany of cowbells ringing along the approach, so it was difficult to hear anything.

I have to differ with you about primes. I love 'em. In fact, I think it's strange that a race would offer ten thousand dollars in prizes, but give a used gelpack or a schrader tube as a prime.

Take it from me, guys: Racers will kill themselves to win a cold sixer for their team. And it only costs $7 or so, or nothing if you can get a beer sponsor.

Zebraman

Mad Axeman wrote:Exactly.

It doesn't need to be a lot, but a little recognition goes a long way. There is a coolness factor to winning a prize, even better a usable prize.

I spent my first two seasons of racing thinking I really didn't have it for racing because I was never in the "money". Then one day Art Wong (former teammate) complemented me on a great season.
I thought he was on crack, then he explained "anything in the top 10 is good and I had a lot of top tens".

My point is, what this district is communicating to riders through impression is that if you can't get a top 6, or in this case top 5, you suck. That was the impression I got early on in racing. Until Art told me I was doing good, I really wasn't inspired to keep racing.

Read between the lines here folks, do you want to grow the sport, or kill it?

"Kill it" is what this district is communicating, that may not be the intention, but that is what is being perceived.

Ron
P.S. Don't tell me I am the only one that thinks this, a lot of people don't speak up, and a lot of them will hide behind the bush and say "psst...Ron...we agree with you"..."but don't tell anyone".

Good idea's here Ron. Casey was right. Vacaville was crazy with primes and those who just rolled along and collected.Pretty casual!Not much for incentives I guess.

Take Care,

Will

Exactly.

It doesn't need to be a lot, but a little recognition goes a long way. There is a coolness factor to winning a prize, even better a usable prize.

I spent my first two seasons of racing thinking I really didn't have it for racing because I was never in the "money". Then one day Art Wong (former teammate) complemented me on a great season.
I thought he was on crack, then he explained "anything in the top 10 is good and I had a lot of top tens".

My point is, what this district is communicating to riders through impression is that if you can't get a top 6, or in this case top 5, you suck. That was the impression I got early on in racing. Until Art told me I was doing good, I really wasn't inspired to keep racing.

Read between the lines here folks, do you want to grow the sport, or kill it?

"Kill it" is what this district is communicating, that may not be the intention, but that is what is being perceived.

Ron
P.S. Don't tell me I am the only one that thinks this, a lot of people don't speak up, and a lot of them will hide behind the bush and say "psst...Ron...we agree with you"..."but don't tell anyone".

Hey a while ago I suggested that some of our promoters are getting a bit prime crazy and that maybe instead of offering so many primes so of those prizes could be shifted to the prizelist so that the prizelist could go deeper. At Vacaville there were some races where there were more prime prizes than the total number of laps in the race some times. THe officials ended up giving away a lot of 2 place primes and even then had to combine some of the prime prizes to give away everything. IN many cases riders didn't even bother sprinting for the primes and just rolled across the finishline like it was a regular non-prime lap.

Having a limited number of primes to help spice up the racing is just fine in my book. Having so many primes that you end up with a prime on almost every lap ( or multi place primes on the majority of laps) is getting a little out of hand I think and I think the riders would be better served by expanding the number of places that get prizes.

You make some very good points.

And how would most promoters ever learn about this frustration?

Do any (local) masters, 3's, 4's races really need a first prize above $150? Maybe if that was the (high-end) starting point there would be more available for the other placings.