That press release was my main man Dylan. He belongs on the mic, for sure.

mwegan wrote:This is not a problem in and of itself, but i think there is a tendency amongst some of these smaller squads to miss the point of why we race. They begin to see themselves as the consumers of bike racing and not active participants in creating it. Granted, it is hard for a small team to start promoting a race from scratch, but that doesn't mean they can't get involved somehow. I think that kind of participation gets racers invested in the system and once that happens they are less likely to see themselves as simply consumers buying a product without any knowledge of how it is being brought to them.

Its the same kind of thing that rubs me the wrong way when i see guys screaming at an official after a race. Sure that official is being paid, but they are not out there in a cow field in the middle of nowhere every weekend for the $100 check. They love bike racing more than most of the racers do. They are giving back to grassroots racing.

MWegan, I don't often agree with everything anyone says, but I strongly endorse everything you've said. It is hard for a small team to promote a race from scratch, but it can be done and it is SOOOO worth the effort. It is the hardest day of the year, and the most fun and satisfying as well. I just love bringing the racers to my home town, inviting my Napa homeys to come watch what we do, and creating something different and special. My local racing buddy Rick McClanahan and I created Napa from scratch last year in six weeks (from concept to execution). The NCNCA really makes it very easy to manage the logistics and procure the essential equipment. ZteaM stepped up as co-sponsors to satisfy their volunteerism obligation, and we gave the proceeds to a local charity that helped out with manpower.

A 5-person race club can put on a race. DO IT!!!

As for the Yountville or St Helena Criterium ... was that a challenge? I just love a challenge. I'm calling out Shawn Oliver and Craig Roemer ... can we do it?!?

Best. press. release. ever.

BBC TTT: "Now with 20% more Integrity!"

I can't believe those jerks at the BBC waited until the time trial was full before announcing this. I wonder if they'll refund the $50 per rider that they didn't charge?

______
BBC FOLLOWS ASO LEAD, DOES NOT INVITE ASTANA
3/2/08
BERKELEY, CA - The Berkeley Bicycle Club announced today that Team Astana has not been invited to any of the races that it organizes in 2009. Said a club spokesman, "Levi Leipheimer showed up at our time trial last year because ASO didn't invite his team to Paris-Nice. This year, Astana was invited to Paris-Nice during our team time trial, so we've decided not to invite them to any of our 2009 races." When asked to further explain the reason behind the ban, he replied "Um. ASO did it last year. They must have had a good reason. Right? Right?" He went on to explain that the the ban does not apply to other UCI teams such as Quickstep, Cervelo Test Team and Saxo Bank. "They're totally invited to come out for the Albany Criterium in July."

ZebraMan wrote:Quote:It's an economic issue but one I'd take in another direction. I present the First Law of Bike Race Economics which is that the cost of a race is directly proportional to the wealthiness of the place it is being held in.

I respectfully disagree. My town race closes down Napa center. You know, NAPA

Exactly!

No offense but Napa proper is where the help lives. That race could never happen in say Yountville. Thomas Keller himself would show up at the permit hearing and talk about how his patrons don't like to see orange detour signs on the way to their $300 foie gras tasting menu. Why? Because people who eat $300 liver love to complain about EVERYTHING and have everything just so. And people who sell $300 tasting menus to them have a good thing going, and a bunch of sweaty dorks on bikes just might get in the way of that!

So the Tour of Yountville Criterium is another one that will never happen. You would need to pay for the relocation of valet parking and a helicopter to ferry patrons from there to the restauarant, plus 25 CHP including motos for every event, plus a $10,000 non refundable permit application fee plus insurance through Lloyds of London in the amount of $100 million in case the reputation of Yountville is tainted by such a lowbrow event as a bicycle race. And SJ or even Sea Otter would look like a veritable bargain.

R4L

SF Sport & Spine sounds like an excellent example of a small club with a dedication to supporting the sport. I hope i didn't come off sounding resentful of smaller clubs. I find that I'm sounding more and more like a grumpy old man and I'm not even a masters racer yet.

mwegan,

An aspiring example of a small club is SF Sport and Spine. They are not a spinoff of the BBC but many members of their club have close ties. They have helped the BBC promote and staff many of our events and many of their members volunteer at our events. As a sponsored club they are fullfilling their obligation to promote or co-promote an event.

Alex Chiappetta helped secure all the proper permits for the BTTT and hand carried them from building to building securing the proper signatures. Floyd Williams was in charge of staffing all the volunteer positions. Many of their members will be course marshalling the route to keep riders safe.

When everyone chips in the "stone soup" turns into a delectable fruit from which everyone can benefit. It's everyone bringing a little bit of something to the party that gives everyone a reason to celebrate.

Zebra- Its true that this is an open forum for discussion, but as with all discussions some opinions carry more weight. As someone who has done more than your fair share of "giving back" through grassroots race promotion, i am more likely to listen to your critiques about a given race or fee structure. You speak from experience. I was simply commenting on a trend (and again this is in no way targeted at paulsumner who has apparently been on the promotion side of the equation too.)

What i see happening is a movement away from the way racing was structured when i started 12 years ago. Back then, and maybe 20-25 years ago is a better example, there were mostly larger clubs that promoted community races as a part of their club charter. Clubs like BBC, Davis Bike Club, LGBRC and others put an amazing amount of volunteer hours into creating great grassroots racing. Of course these clubs still put on these races and they are without a doubt some of the best races of the year. However, what i see nowadays is a tendency for folks to split off from these grassroots clubs to form their own little boutique squads with 6 or 7 of their buddies who all want to race together, call their own shots and probably most importantly have their own pro looking kits with matching helmets and shoe covers.

This is not a problem in and of itself, but i think there is a tendency amongst some of these smaller squads to miss the point of why we race. They begin to see themselves as the consumers of bike racing and not active participants in creating it. Granted, it is hard for a small team to start promoting a race from scratch, but that doesn't mean they can't get involved somehow. I think that kind of participation gets racers invested in the system and once that happens they are less likely to see themselves as simply consumers buying a product without any knowledge of how it is being brought to them.

Its the same kind of thing that rubs me the wrong way when i see guys screaming at an official after a race. Sure that official is being paid, but they are not out there in a cow field in the middle of nowhere every weekend for the $100 check. They love bike racing more than most of the racers do. They are giving back to grassroots racing.

(Note: the opinions expressed above are a gross generalization about small clubs. There are many small teams and start up squads that have a great dedication to the grassroots aspect of our sport. Please don't pepper me with replies about how your club helped put on the Silverado Trail Circuit Race Powered by Auberge du Soleil (Props to Roadie4life that race name is too hilarious).

AND BBC's Team Time Trial, which has apparently sold out (in the literal, not colloquial meaning).

The matter was well-discussed and once again the consumer has spoken.

LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN!! - Maurice Sendak

Quote:I often wonder how many folks who criticize race promoters have ever been involved in putting on a race. I mean really putting one on. Not just having your club name tacked onto a permit and showing up to help with course marshaling.

Okay, I started the whole SJCrit discussion, and I'm not ashamed of it. I have promoted a club race, and created my very own race without a club, run for charity, just to create a really fun race-party for my friends, and risking my own money (as a single-income civil servant with two toddlers). Does that give me a "license to criticize" by your standard? I guess. It doesn't mean anything if my opinion is not logical or reasonable (at least to some).

Listen - this is a forum. This is a discussion amongst ourselves, the consumers, on our opinions of an issue. People have joined the issue on both sides and shared opinions. Some have more knowledge than others, some have more insight than others, some are more critical than others, and some just want to "asshat." It's all good, unless people are being personally derided for having a differing opinion.

Quote:It's an economic issue but one I'd take in another direction. I present the First Law of Bike Race Economics which is that the cost of a race is directly proportional to the wealthiness of the place it is being held in. This is simple economics at work.

I respectfully disagree. My town race closes down Napa center. You know, NAPA! We had lots of cash, cases of wine, cases of Cytosport prizes, forty-something primes, 100 t-shirts, 100 medals, free showers/jacuzzis, and the entry fee was $25 last year and $27 this year, and the proceeds (if any) go to a charity. Lorri's is in Menlo Park for $30, because she fought for it and found a benefactor. Tom's occupies Burlingame with a panzer division of cops and barricades and still comes out affordable for the racer.

The cost of a race is directly proportional to the EFFORT of the promoter and ... you know ... I won't say it again ... other things.

The SBO page should have an event flyer. Registration wouldn't open until the permit application was approved by NCNCA. The organizers originally requested a team of more than four riders, but it was thought that idea would create a safety hazard on open roadways.

Last I heard from the planning stages it was going to be a 4-person event...

Altamont TTT April 4

While sort of on the subject, but not wanting to start a new thread, does anyone know anything about the Altamont TTT? The reg page is up on SBO and the entry fee is $100 for a team, but I can't find any info on how many riders to a team.

I sure hope it's more than 2 though. :lol:

paulsumner wrote:I've also been racing a very long time and can remember when racing cost significantly less.

different day, same muddled lack of an intelligently thought out argument...

i remember when minimum wage was much lower, i remember when bikes didn't cost thousands of dollars, i remember when a movie cost $3.00, i remember when the price to provide CHP and other race services cost less, you (paul) seem to have blissfully forgotten about inflation.

no need to look into purchasing power parity or the gdp deflator to see if current race prices make sense in a historical context. but i'm guessing if i made the effort $25 per person for a TTT probably wouldn't be that far off from those bygone "cheap" days that you refer to.

sorry if i come across as an a--hole, it's nature and nurture. i was born an a--sshole and was raised to be so ;-)

besides, ignorance has a way of pushing me into the red zone!

:twisted:

Quote:Given the Berkeley TTT is a low key/local race and its not a criterium (scary for some just trying out cycling), it a shame it can't be cheap also.

I rememeber in 1972 when a ski lift ticket at Sierra Ski ranch was 8.00 and a season pass was 70.00. I haven't strapped the boards on since 1986 but I hear that some resorts are approaching triple digits. I didn't stop skiing because of the cost. I just discovered bike riding and it was more fun.

Last year we were fortunate to have Levi Leipheimer enter our event. He didn't asked to be comp'd but in lieu of an entry fee the board decided to ask him to autograph a few jerseys that we could donate to organizations such as the Norcal Mountain Bike League so that they could auction them off to raise money.

Our venue provides the opportunity for the serious and the recreational rider. It provides an event where you can ride with NorCals best riders. World Champions include Larry Nolan and Rob Anderson. Multiple National Champions...Michael Hutchinson, Kevin Metcalfe, Dan Smith, John Notivsky, Mick Hellman, Richard Shields and others.

Bottom line...we want the sport to enjoyed by all. We want to put on a safe, economical, and competitive event. The event was sold out in 2008 and it looks like we will do the same this year.

velogirl wrote:With all due respect, as a race promoter, I can tell you that the economic environment is changing the way we promote races.

It's an economic issue but one I'd take in another direction. I present the First Law of Bike Race Economics which is that the cost of a race is directly proportional to the wealthiness of the place it is being held in. This is simple economics at work.

BUT it's not that rich people can afford high entry fees! With few exceptions rich people don't race bikes - it's too much work, and you can't spend your way much past Cat 4. Instead they play golf or race J44's or late 60's roadsters or just pretty much do nothing.

But they love to complain! And the richer you are, the more likely it is that you'll complain about a bike race being held anywhere between your driveway and the nearest Peet's.

Start thinking of some expensive races, and some races that don't happen anymore because a couple of locals complained too much, and some races where the permits keep getting jacked for no good reason. Now think of the races where for $25 we can race on 20 mile closed loops made almost entirely of VP-laid cold patch. See what I mean?

Some places are still happy to have us, and still won't jack the permits even if some jerk takes a pre-race plop in the middle of the softball diamond. Police escort, what are you kidding? We don't even have a police force!

Some other places...well they require videotape documentation so they can count the number of racers warming up who do not come to a full and complete stop at a suburban intersection, where every day of the week every Range Rover driven by a local blows through at 15 mph with the driver on a cell phone. And if this number is greater than 1 or 2, the race shall be banished!

Races we'll never see
The Ross Downtown Criterium
Silverado Trail Circuit Race Powered by Auberge du Soleil
Woodside-Cupertino-Woodside
Tour of Nicasio
Rockridge Twilight

Menlo Park and Los Gatos jacked their permits, did Milton?

R4L

Paul,

As a few have already mentioned the 50.00 entry fee comes out to 25.00 per person which appears to be in the same ball park as VP races and other criteriums and time trials in the NCNCA region. Beautiful scenery, varying terrain and for most, at least 40 minutes with the one you love.

Priceless.

Well, actually I have been involved in promoting races. I've also been racing a very long time and can remember when racing cost significantly less. High race fees are yet another barrier for those who want to try our sport. Given the Berkeley TTT is a low key/local race and its not a criterium (scary for some just trying out cycling), it a shame it can't be cheap also. High race fees tend to turn into other high race fees. When clubs choose to fund their races and sometimes even their budgets solely by race fees, its bad for cycling.

No race promoter or club is getting rich off of their races

I take issue with this - Alec and I always have enormous problems choosing the color of each season's new Porsches from seasonal revenues. I can't speak for Velo Promo Robert but I believe he has always been a domestic Detroit-type consumer for his new vehicles - like us purchased in cash, of course, at the end of every season. You know, when those ashtrays are filled in December, it's clearly time to get those thousands of unused profit dollars to fill our garages.

I don;t know why more people haven't figured out the Northern California Cycling "get rich quick" scheme like we have.

Pilarcitos Cyclesports - "how else do you think we can afford these fancy cars?"

This is not directed at anyone in particular, and I don't think I have anything to add that wasn't already covered 10 times over in the SJ Crit thread, but as someone who works very hard to help promote a race weekend every year here in the NCNCA I get a bit defensive when I hear people throw out criticisms. There seem to be a lot of them lately. I often wonder how many folks who criticize race promoters have ever been involved in putting on a race. I mean really putting one on. Not just having your club name tacked onto a permit and showing up to help with course marshaling.
No race promoter or club is getting rich off of their races. Most of them are just trying to keep costs low and still provide great races. This is a grassroots effort and it only exists for the purpose of supporting local racing.
I think the more people that promote races the more appreciative racers we will have. The more you work the less time you have to complain. It reminds me of the race I did this weekend. The guys at the back sucking wheels were the ones yelling up to the front for guys to pull harder.

paulsumner wrote:With all due respect to the Berkeley BC, I must say that I'm not pleased with a $50 fee for a TT, moreover a race with a $150 prize list. I definitely will not be attending. Also, How can BBC justify charging Cat 5's $50 with a merchandise prize list? Huh?

Is this a new trend? 1st SJ's fees now this...

math...huh, huh...sucks...huh, huh...

maybe you didn't actually read the flyer where it says the fee is for two person teams sparky

36 x 26 wrote:

It starts off with acquiring permits from the cities, counties, East Bay Regional Parks. Equipment rental, setup, course sweeping and removing debris that the rain and wind have caused. Highway Patrol officers, officials, timers, Emergency Medical Techs on hand, porta potties, food for course workers, acquiring FREE parking for particiapants in a PAID PARKING LOT, race numbers, and a very generous donation to the East Bay Regional Park District.

oh yeah, porta-potties. thanks for reminding me. and extra TP, too!

I am a member of the BBC and am familiar with the expenses that are put out for the event. I'll start off by saying that we have 65 non-paid volunteers that have so graciously volunteered their time.

It starts off with acquiring permits from the cities, counties, East Bay Regional Parks. Equipment rental, setup, course sweeping and removing debris that the rain and wind have caused. Highway Patrol officers, officials, timers, Emergency Medical Techs on hand, porta potties, food for course workers, acquiring FREE parking for participants in a PAID PARKING LOT, race numbers, and a very generous donation to the East Bay Regional Park District.

I need not remind anyone that the BBC puts on three events every year. The TTT, Berkeley Hills RR, and the Albany Criterium. I don't see too many other clubs putting on that many events and Lori can attest to the amount of work it takes to put on the Menlo Park Crit. Ask Alto Velo how much work it is to put on the Pescadero RR.

I've monitored all the talk on the San Jose event and can totally relate to and respect eveyones opinion. But I take issue with people complaining about cost without understanding the intricate logistics of putting on an event.

Another thing worth mentioning about the Berkeley TTT event is that there are a large number of teams who really do this for fun. Father/son, father/daughter, brother/sister, husband/wife, members from different teams riding together for a change, and taking it at their own pace and competing against themselves.

We're looking at some favorable weather this Saturday and there is still time to reg.

I'm not the promoter

Elis wrote:

Also, cat 5 races are not allowed to distribute cash as prizes per USCF rules (if I'm wrong there, please correct me). Mixed-category races giving cash to highly-placed 5s is a bit of a loophole.

CAT5 races are not allowed to distribute prizes or premes of ANY SIGNIFICANT VALUE. This means merchandise isn't even allowed. The exception to this is "keepsake" type prizes (event t-shirts, medals, etc). Or maybe home baked cookies and brownies.

That is $50 for a two-person team (so $25 per person).

Also, cat 5 races are not allowed to distribute cash as prizes per USCF rules (if I'm wrong there, please correct me). Mixed-category races giving cash to highly-placed 5s is a bit of a loophole.

With all due respect, as a race promoter, I can tell you that the economic environment is changing the way we promote races.

Municipalities are increasing their fees.

Cash sponsors are more challenging to secure.

This means that clubs need to increase registration fees or lose money on their events.

If clubs, especially those who only promote one or two races a year, lose money on their events, they won't promote them in the following year.

If clubs quit promoting races, racers will have fewer options to race.

To grow this sport, we need to keep up with economic change.

Until you truly understand all the overhead involved in promoting a race, please don't criticize other clubs. The fees are significant: municiplaity, NCNCA, USA Cycling, insurance, on-line registration company, equipment rental, the list goes on and on. heck, even purchasing numbers and pins costs hundreds of dollars!

God bless Robert Leibold, but I think the day of the $23 Velo Promo race is long gone.