IMO pack fodder happens when someone isn't even competitive enough to stay with the field and gets dropped when the pace picks up, even though that person has been sitting in the entire time! Then one may start to question if they are in the right category.

I have to disagree here as well. As a 4 I never did better than 7th or 8th place. I upgraded to a 3 and hit the podium on the first road race.
The style of racing in the 3s was aggressive and it suited my fitness and racing style better. The negative racing in the 4s didn't agree with me.

Note: This was almost 10 years ago. Things may have changed.

Ron

alanatha wrote:read...pack fodder.

Hmm, nope, don't agree with that either. By definition, pack fodder doesn't make it to the pointy end of the field - and 6th place is definitely the pointy end, just not the very tip.

If you're doing Cat 4 or Cat 3 races with at least 40 racers and usually quite a few more (i.e. most races in NorCal) and you're able to consistently finish in the top 10, I wouldn't call you pack fodder. In fact, I'd call you a very strong rider - who needs to figure out what you could do to seal the deal.

Now, if you're racing in fields with only a dozen people (say, 'Masters' 55+ ) then sure, pack fodder might be an appropriate, if somewhat distasteful, moniker for someone who consistently places 6th.

read...pack fodder.

Somewhat OT, but IMO somebody with even 20 sixth places doesn't qualify as a sandbagger. It's unfortunate that some think it's imperative to upgrade as soon as possible, even if you haven't won a single race. Getting on that top step certainly doesn't get any easier as you cat up...

The Jesster wrote:Actually, he would "qualify" for an upgrade with 20 6th placings, assuming he had 25 races. He just wouldn't be forced to upgrade. Except by his peers, shouting "Sandbagger!!" from the sidewalk.

If the rider only had 20 races and 20 6th place finishes then he would only qualify for an upgrade based on 20 points. If the rider doesn't have 25 races to go along with at least 10 top 10s they don't qualify for an upgrade no matter how much the peanut gallery shouts sandbagger from the sidelines.

Actually, he would "qualify" for an upgrade with 20 6th placings, assuming he had 25 races. He just wouldn't be forced to upgrade. Except by his peers, shouting "Sandbagger!!" from the sidewalk.

It looks like the currently listed leader of the Cat 4 BAR got credit for some points he shouldn't have gotten. Looks like it was my fault for not alerting the person running the BAR points that Joshua Carling had qualified for an upgrade and should have topped earning point back when he had 84 points. We will have to make a points adjustment to correct that one.

Looks like the currently listed 2nd place rider in the Cat 4 BAR Shaun Durkan does legitimately have 94 points. He got 13 points in a TT which doesn't count for upgrading, 1 point from a 10 place that didn't count for upgrading, another point for a 10th place 4 points for a 7th place that didn't count for upgrading and 26 points for the Madera GC placing. Remember that for Cat 4s a GC placing doesn't count for upgrading ( only the individual stages count if they are mass start races) and stage race GC placings count for double points. Shaun only got 1 upgrade point from Madera for 6th in the crit but 26 BAR points.

A Cat 4 could earn 100 BAR points by placing 6th 20 times in races that qualify for upgrade points. Add in points that could be earned in time trials, which never count for upgrading or placings 7-10 which never earn upgrade points or placing in races with less than 30 riders and a Cat 4 could rack up a lot of BAR points without qualifying for an upgrade.

a.) official results may not reach Casey for a long time for some races so those results may not be used for a mandatory upgrade until they do
b.) lots of races don't meet the minimum field size requirement or distance/length requirement
c.) many time trials and uphill races count towards the BAR but don't count in upgrades
d.) you can get BAR points but no upgrade points for some placings

Don't know anything about why BAR points keep accumulating for riders with enough upgrade points but it's probably partially due to some of the above.