The ambulance mess happened before the left hand turn onto the crummy road with the series of small hills. If I recall, the confusion was just the front of pack deciding to slow way down at the crest of each and every hill, making an attack very tempting, assuming you were at the front. The illegal drafters would have been at the front at the left turn. I don't know how many of them remained there. It was hard to get around/through the mass of bikers during the lulls, although admittedly, I am bad at pushing my way to the front in these types of races.

Reading a race report from the Cat 3s at Merco RR:

"Approaching the last roller I had moved up further and sat comfortable in Bill's wheel. Just before reaching the top of this last roller I sensed some confusion and for some reason it felt like the right moment to take off."

This "confusion" -- was that due to the ambulance? Is this related to the illegal drafting?

Though it was a race . . . if the course is considered open/closed, and an emergency unit approaches . . . we are considered "vehicles of the road" (just not "motor vechiles of the road", we are still required to follow many of the Calif. Vehicle Code regulations.

If you were in your car, and an ambulance passed, would you chase it and draft? On my training rides (and even races), I follow the CVC (even stop at signs), thinking "and if I was in my car?"

We don't like it if approaching an intersection, a car blows it, we get MAD! But when we do it on our bikes . . . ?

Yes, a race is different than on our training/group rides. The race organizer (and sponsoring team) lay alot of community support/tolerance on our presence. Just look at Berkeley Hills & Pinole TTT "pleading . . . pleading" for the racers to follow the race directions/rules, requests, and not urinating or blowing stop signs warming up/cooling down.

Sure...There is really no way to know for sure...You would have had to move up again, and sure you would have do some extra work, but at that point, did it really matter. I don't think so. Now if you were in the Women's 3/4 race where they were nutralized 3 or 4 times in two laps, then that had an impact.

I guess my point is this, the issue was the act, and not how it affected the race. I too have raced in 35+ races and like the dynamic and the fact that there is some accountability for you actions, but it sure is fun to beat up on the Kids :wink:

t wrote:The Ambulance passing had Zero effect on the outcome of the race....period.I believe any reasonable individual would agree that there is NO WAY anybody could know this, one way or another.

Having raced in both masters 35+ and 45+ fields, I was very disappointed with the conduct of many riders in this field for this entire race. The ambulance incident was just par-for-the-course. I believe there is a lot to be said for master’s fields where such anonymity is much less of an option.

Yes, the race was all about position. If you were near the front and decided to slow down, you got swarmed. If you were in the middle and moved over (me) you got passed and were at the back. Sure, there was time to try and get back near the front before the left turn and before the final turns to the sprint. I am not going to say the appearence of the ambulance, and the guys who thought it was fun to draft it up to the front, ended my chances, if any. I just wanted to point out how incredibly lame it was for the racers to do it. It showed complete contempt for their competitors, the injured rider in the ambulance, the emergency professionals, the race organziers, etc., etc. I think you get my point.

t, I take it you're not excusing their behavior because it was in fun... sure, it's all about fun but mistakes were made, as someone has said.

Still, I'd like to point out that even if that moment wasn't the decisive one in the race, these guys got a huge draft and others had to chase, perhaps burning a few matches, and position on the road in a huge field was shuffled by cheating. And that's just in terms of tactics; there are still the safety and security issues.

Sorry to be such a hard-ass about this -- no, not really.

The Ambulance passing had Zero effect on the outcome of the race....period. I saw the whole freakin thing and we were still a long way from the left turn on Cox Ferry Road. In fact it passed us as we dropped down to cross over the river. The guys who did start the Ambulance chase, looked right at each other, as if to say " all right, free ride." They were having a good-ol-time with it. The race, in my opinon, was made on Cox Ferry Road and the outcome had nothting to do with the Ambulance.

Which is the crazy part....those guys did it for fun.

Quote:The fact is, the ones who dutifully, safely neutralized will probably not be adversely affected if that suggestion were to be followed.

Sad, but possibly true. I certainly was passed by many people. There could also have been top finishers right next to me who were super strong and were able to get their way back up to the front and sprint it out.

To me slowing down and pulling over is common sense. I am also older than much of the field and have been racing for over 20 years.

The written test for upgrade is a great idea, and easy to implement as a web-based protocol. It's not like anyone could possibly fail, since they could have the rulebook printed out in front of them. But it would force people to know (at least some of) the rules.

Really, is there any logical argument against your idea, Casey?

We are so proud of our progressive thinking in NorCal. Why don't we keep leading the way to make the sport safer?

Lets' have an upgrade safety test. Lets' segregate the 5's and have all 5's crit fields mentored. Promoters will find no paucity of willing and highly-qualified mentors.

And I think the "Old Testament penalty" for a widespread rules violation like the MercoRR 4's ambulance debacle and the 35+ 1/2/3 - W4 overlapping field nightmare is a good one. The fact is, the ones who dutifully, safely neutralized will probably not be adversely affected if that suggestion were to be followed.

There was one additional factor at play with the ambulance passing that caused some confusion. The peloton was lead by the police officer doing the rolling closure. The officer may or may not have been aware of the ambulance situation. The peloton did not actually pass the police car, but the car going about 30 mph. The car came into the right lane, but was well ahead of the pack. Perhaps if there was communication between the police, officials and the ambulance, the police escort could have slowed the overall pace was down. This wouldn't have stopped the group from spreading across both lanes, as was the case, but there would have been less inclination to draft the ambulance past the police car.

That's an interesting idea, Casey, though implementation could be hairy.

Still, if certain illegal (and dangerous) behaviors are so common, especially on certain courses, could those particular ones be pointed out at the start, including the warning that such behaviors will result in DQ?

Also -- and this is a personal request from someone who don't hear too good -- it'd be really nice if the officials, when facing a large field, gave their instructions once at the front and then once at the back of the field. I know even when people aren't talking, I can't hear what's said if I'm a few rows back. It'd mean lining up a minute or two earlier and could strain vocal chords, but it could help.

As I said in another thread when everyone is standing on the starting line isn't the place to try and give in depth instructions on what to do in all possible situations you might experience. Maybe it is time to start pushing harder for a long term idea I've had which is to add passing a written test on basic rules and concepts as part of the upgrade process. If you can' pass the test you don't get to upgrade. This would at least force a lot of people to download and then browse the rule book for the first time, which would be a good thing.

Really, Casey, is there some kind of old-fashioned, Old Testament-style lesson the officials could teach that pack, even post facto?

Last year at Copper, there was an Ambulance blocking the road to
render aid to a fallen female cyclist. This was on the fast downhill section.
I remember at the time we were forced to dismount run into the ditch,
all for the sake in my case, and others behind me a race for 20th plus. Sad now that I look back at how focused I was worrying about myself, and my need to be ahead of the riders behind me.

Hm, those guys looks like they're riding back after the race (though that's no excuse for riding over the line).

At San Ardo one year, one team's riders kept attacking over the line and the moto ref chased them down and made them go back to the pack -- but he couldn't be there and police all the violators and he didn't have anyone who could record numbers and relegate/DQ repeat offenders.

The year before, coming across the narrow bridge before the finish, loads of guys attacked over the double yellow and nearly became grill fodder for an oncoming truck! When they had to scoot back in to the field, the rest of us had to slam on our brakes to make room. Think that was my max heart rate for the day, just watching it... and my race was over because a dozen of us had to come to a near-halt due to their idiocy.

dturner wrote:So, what is to be done?

I feel very strongly about this; in previous races I've watched certain teams attack over the double yellow to get advantage and it's disgusting.

And what should a race-promoting club do? We've tried to emphasize the yellow line rule at Tam (for obvious reasons) - web site announcement for example. Every year it seems a few ignore it, like in 35+ 2006:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewgalleryPhoto.asp?userid=abbiorca&gallery_id...

It's not just the effect on the race outcome...it's the car coming around the bend that drives off the road because of an oncoming biker.

Any other promoting clubs concerned with this?

-Tad

So, if we have widespread reportage of a particular rule violation, can it be enacted post facto?

Well the drastic approach would have been to DQ the whole field. This approach might have caught up some riders who did the right thing but it sounds like pretty much the whole field was involved in some kind of rules violation ( either not pulling over for the ambulance in the first place or drafting the ambulance after it passed.

Just as a reminder to everyone about USCF rule 3B2 Rules of the road. Riders shall, of their own responsibility, conform to all traffic regulations in force in the area where the race is held [ Relegation or disqualification and possible 10 day suspension] Just because riders had full use of the road and could run stop signs doesn't mean that the other rules of the road ( like pulling over for an emergency vehicle) can also be ignored.

The moto ref was busy in front of the ambulance honking the horn in vain trying to get the pack to slow down and move over. There was no moto behind the ambulance. There were far too many riders involved in jumping up behind the ambulance to remember all of them. I suppose one or two could be named, but I think it is too late to modify the results, assuming the riders involved placed.

So, what is to be done? If there are so many witnesses to illegal (and dangerous, and stupid, and unfair) behavior, can the results be revoked, riders suspended? The latter seems too difficult to adjucate and the former may not be in the USCF rulebook, but it would have the effect in future races of encouraging fields to police themselves.

Were there official witnesses to this? Did the motor refs see this?

I feel very strongly about this; in previous races I've watched certain teams attack over the double yellow to get advantage and it's disgusting.

It was very unfortunate to have nearly a full field (120), being passed by the ambulance and so close to the finish. The field was curb-to-curb and many deep with little chance to get to-the-front. I heard the moto, figured the field would neutralize so I and sat-up and got shot right-out-the back as it seemed the field took the opportunity to attack those that sat-up. It seemed to take forever for the field to finally "neutralize" as nobody was willing to give up ground. The ambulance then started to pass the field with only about half the field neutral with the front half still curb-to-curb. As the ambulance passed, many riders got behind the ambulance and gained field position at a "critical" point in the race. The whole thing was very disturbing to watch; especially how long it took for the majority of the riders to "neutralize". That is if you call "neutralizing" still charging along at 25-35mph but only on the right-side of the road.

I thought the same thing......you guys have got to be kidding me. What was the point.