velogirl wrote:So, Dan, just so we think this through a bit.
It's just hypothetical. Casey says the system is $25k or so. Assume a 5 year amortization (includes repair and depreciation), 50 races per year, 500 riders per race, that's 20 cents per rider per race. So I just pulled $4.80 out of a hat as a cost of operating and storing and transporting the system. Not much thinking through occurred :). The assumption is, however, the added cost would be until something newer and better replaced it.
With the transponder system I'm not sure how much extra the cost per race would be if NCNCA ran the system. The basic system we would need would be $8,000. This doesn't include the cost of the transponders naturally. If most people bought their own transponders ( which should be good for 3 years at least) then the extra cost would be for 1 or 2 people to transport the system and run it. Even with 1 or 2 people we would still probably need a couple of extra people from the race staff to help check in and out transponders. If the transponder people are paid along the line of a Chief official ( about $100 per day each plus transportation and lunch/drinks) then in bigger races the extra cost to riders probably wouldn't be that bad. For riders who don't opt to buy a transponder then there would be an extra cost to rent a transponder per race.
casey wrote:I will point out that if you are a cycling geek who loves to pour over numbers and data then a transponder system is what you want. You can get all sorts of data such as fastest lap time, average lap time, you can find out which rider turned the fastest lap of the day ( not always the lead rider turns the fastest lap). For an example of the type of Info you can get from the transponder system they are using in FL see http://www.floridacycling.com/DynamicResults.htm?runid=735384
That would be cool! I'd pay an extra couple bucks per race any buy a transponder for the extra data.
Nolan's last lap was how much faster than mine! :shock:
On second thought.......
I will point out that if you are a cycling geek who loves to pour over numbers and data then a transponder system is what you want. You can get all sorts of data such as fastest lap time, average lap time, you can find out which rider turned the fastest lap of the day ( not always the lead rider turns the fastest lap). For an example of the type of Info you can get from the transponder system they are using in FL see http://www.floridacycling.com/DynamicResults.htm?runid=735384
One option currently available for race promoters is to work with one of the event production companies that offers this service. We are working with Sports Base Events (not affiliated with Sports Base Online) and they are providing the Finish Lynx system for us.
Lorri Lee Lown
The FinishLynx system that Dan specifically mentions in the poll does not use chips or transponders to determine the results. The FinishLynx system is a video system, along the lines of what we currently use. The advantages of the FinishLynx system are.
1) It is more accurate at judging very close finishes. Our current Video system really isn't very good at trying to judge very close finishes since you often don;t have the exact image you need to judge the finish.
2) You can have the Reg info loaded into the computer running the FinishLynx software so you can enter results as you review the video.
3) FinishLynx has built in timing so you could get race times and time gaps more easily than we currently can.
You can read more about the FinishLynx system at http://www.finishlynx.com/
Note the Tour of CA had a 3 camera FinishLynx system to do their results.
The AMB transponder system is a different system that uses transponders on bikes to do results. You Would still need Video to verify close finishes in the prize positions. Outside of the prize positions you could just go with the transponder results. The AMB transponders cost about $100 each. For each race the transponder for each rider has to be scanned and the rider's race number logged to match their transponder. The scanning and logging process is pretty quick. With the AMB system people would either buy their own transponder or rent a transponder each race ( for like $5).
With either the FinishLynx or AMB system we would need to train a small group of people who would then have to be in charge of transporting and running the equipment at each race.
I voted no because I think that $5 is a bit steep and the system seems to work fine. I've only had 2 races where I wasn't in the results and those were early season pack finishes where the results only got the top 10 or so. I must be good at pinning on my number. :D
By the way, the longest I've ever waited for results after a race has been at Sea Otter where they have chip timing. They even missed the winner of one of the road races a couple years ago, and I don't think it ever got corrected
Now, getting the results to USA Cycling quickly and correct is something I'd pay a extra couple bucks for. There are still many many races from the last few years that never made it to the USA Cycling site, and 1 where a 21 year old kid from West Virginia got credit for my win.
As much as I like the idea of automation. There are other considerations. How does the system get to each event and then returned? How many people need to be trained to use the system? What is the cost of training? I believe each rider has to have a magnetic transponder(?) that needs to be programed and cordinated to an individuals number (per event). I assume it will be something similar to what we use at Sea Otter. How much time is needed for the programing for each event? Then someone has to collect the magnetic strips from each rider at the end of day. These are a few of the job requiremnets, after purchase, which cost time and money. Well, there's my two cents on the issue.
So, Dan, just so we think this through a bit. This is a $5/race surcharge that will be collected by the race promoters as part of the registration fee and paid to the NCNCA to invest in a FinishLynx system? So like the other race surcharges that promoters already pay (NCNCA & USAC) it will be administered by the Chief Referee and then submitted to the NCNCA based on the number of paid registrations for the day.
And who would determine when we stop paying this surcharge?
And how do we fund the on-going maintenance expenses associated with such a purchase?