I calculated most all of the 35+ 4/5 BAR rider's (with 50 BAR points or more) actual upgrade points vs BAR/BAT points earned last year, as well as this year.

I did this for our team so we'd know exactly where the team and specific riders stood within the stated rules of the game. Both in 2008 and 2009 I found riders on other teams (and on our own) awarded points they weren't eligible for. And it had a big effect on where our team and riders ended up in the BAR and BAT competitions at the end of the year.

And I can say that last year Casey and Ken Hernandez worked at the end of the season to update all posted results so that riders and teams were only awarded BAR/BAT points they earned up to earning 20 upgrade points.

I'd strongly suggest every team have at least one guy/gal designated to calculate and verify team results, posted point totals, rider upgrade points, etc., each season. With all the hard work that goes into earning results, why would a team not have at least one person keeping track of them?

Personally, I like the rules the way they are. There are way too many guys in the elite and master's 4's that would race there forever if they could get away with it. The rules, as they stand, are one more motivation for guys to move on and race at their ability.

The rules re upgrade points for 3's and 4's, and how they affect BAR/BAT point eligibility are clearly stated and public knowledge. I think it's a good system with noble motives.

Griff brings up a good point. Even though someone races consistently well, that doesn't mean they've earned the minimum number of upgrade points. Unless you've actually calculated a racer's points, it's tough to know how many points they REALLY have.

I brought this thread and the original question to the attention of the NCNCA BOD and Ken Hernandez (BAR/BAT coordinator) and Casey noted that all standings will be reviewed before the final BAR/BAT totals are posted.

Lorri

keep in mind that time trials count towards BAR/BAT, but not upgrades. Also, Masters categories in question can also race in Elite categories . . . given there are different points and rules for BAR/BAT, upgrade, and USAC Ranking, I think it's already too complicated to try to manage riders BAR/BAT down to a "fair" level.

My recommendation is to accept an imperfect system and enjoy racing in one of the best place to race in the United States. I think a lot of your sandbaggers have already upgraded. If they haven't, feel free to shoot a note to Casey '-)

FYI, for those who want to play along at home, you'll find the BAR/BAT rules here:

http://www.ncnca.org/barbat/BAR-BAT-rules.shtml

The rule in questions:

When a rider earns sufficient upgrade points to qualify for a Category upgrade (20 points for a Cat 4 or 25 points for a Cat 3) within the previous 12 month period, the rider will stop earning BAR and BAT points in their current category. The NCNCA Office maintains the rider database of Category 3 and 4 upgrade points and is not associated with the BAR/BAT program. The BARBAT program will be notified by the NCNCA Office when records indicate a rider has qualified for an upgrade. The rider will stop earning BAR and BAT points on the date of the race that the rider earned enough points to qualify for the upgrade. The rider will again be eligible to earn BAR and BAT points at the higher category after their upgrade is processed.

Since 1/2s are picked for BAR/BAT together, this rule only affects CAT 3 + 4 racers (racing in any BAR/BAT category, including the Masters designations).

Each year the NCNCA BOD re-vists these rules for the following season, so this is a very valid discussion for the fall.

Without referring to the BOD minutes, I recall the long discussions we had about the new rule (referenced above). I personally don't agree with that rule either. As the leader of a development team, I encourage my racers to keep racing in their current category beyond the minimum upgrade point threshold because I want them to gain more experience before upgrading. There's no sandbagging involved -- I simply want my racers to be as prepared as possible to race in the next category, and also to help their teammates before they upgrade.

While this rule won't be changed for the current (2009) season, I would like to see us revisit it for the 2010 season. If you feel strongly about it, I would encourage you to post here, contact a current NCNCA BOD member, and attend the October NCNCA BOD meeting where we will put the rules back on the table for discussion/vote for 2010.

Lorri

ps -- while we're at it, I would also like to encourage the NCNCA to re-instate the Womens 35+ BAT/BAT category. Many promoters use the BAR/BAT categories as a guideline for which fields they include in their race-day calendar, and I would like to see more promoters considering a Masters Women field for 2010.

I'm pretty sure this will affect all of the the top ten riders in the BAR, and the top five teams in the BAT. If a rider is scoring that many BAR points, you know he has at least 20 upgrade points. And if a Team has that many BAR points, those riders in that class are scoring major upgrade points as well. I know some of my team is guilty of this. The argument will be, I don't have to be forced to upgrade until I get 30 points, so I will sandbag until then. Hahahahaha :shock:

Hollywood