I think the jury is still deliberating. They may become hung up on the semantics of "uninhibited", and the discussion will continue again. :wink:

Uhm, I think I won that one. :x

Chill folks, for God's sake I am not saying it's not a great idea. It just needs to be handled in a way that makes execution doable and fair for the riders. If you don't have guide lines or some basics to follow you will get riders whining about how they should have this and should have that.
Think about it realistically for second, we have Cat 5s complaining because they didn't see their name in 40th place instead of 45th place.

There is always somebody to scream "it's not fair".
As a promoter and the guy on the mic I get enough of that as it is. I don't want more and I am sure Jess who is bring this very cool program to fruition doesn't want headaches. He wants it to be fun, and sometimes for things to be fun you need some structure.

A little thought and pre-engineering now will save a lot of headaches later and make the whole thing a lot of fun for everyone. As Jess intends it to be.

Solve as many problems as you can before they happen.
A well thought out plan, even if executed partially, beats making things up on fly 10 to 1.

Ron
P.S. Jess, yes it is hard, at least for me it is. I am lucky to get a number and look up the name as the group goes by.
"Flip the lap card" "Oh, yeah I got flip the lp card, $#!^ I have another preme to give out". "$#!^, I was busy calling 911 for the crash and forgot to flip the card, and I still have this damn preme!"

not a bad idea Jest. Will talk to the powers at be.......

Thank you Laurie. You'd seem to be a shoe-in for a few bottles next year. In your case, we may start kissing the winners. :oops:

Ron - Your race, the EMC Crit, would seem to be very easy to judge. Have whomever is on the mic make the call. I know, it's usually you. Believe me, it's not hard. Elgart and I had a good time discussing it at Albany. In fact, it gives you something to get interactive with the crowd about.

Jason - (Nice job at Minden, Man!) I understand. I'd race Bernie-style for a 12 pack of Sierra Nevada, especially if it was cold. Maybe we can still use the results of your own Aggressive Rider competition for the overall prize, though.

I like the idea of aggressive racing through out, but also place perhaps top 10. And I also like the idea of the marshalls giving feedback, since some of the aggression is played out on the back side or in the head wind. But what about feedback from the racers? They see the whole thing. This is fun Jesse, thanks for bringing in more support.
Laurie Fenech
Mako/DeMarco's

Mad Axeman wrote:The main thing that needs to be fixed is the structure of the program. You can't possibly have a successful program without a well defined structure and guidelines for participants (race promoters) to follow. Otherwise everyone will just create their own criteria and you have no cohesive method for arriving at the results in which to pick a real winner.

Ron

Let's have some fun making it up as we go along. When my Uncle gave me money on my birthday, I didn't complain that he didn't tell me how to spend it.

Just tried a bottle about a month ago.

Great way to promote/brand the image further and cool to give back to the sport.

Some promoters may go for it and others may not. We should be happy that we have sponsors willing to give product in light of the crap going on in the pro ranks and it could make for some more spice in the races.

I imagine our team will pass though since we already have wine and beer sponsors.

Let's have the competition be won by the guy (or girl) who can punch the most racers before getting caught...........

Jeeezz you guys, somebody has a great idea, brings money and product into OUR sport (we're amatuers, remember?) and most of you make it sound like Jess wants us to race with flat tires or something.

Lighten up everybody, and make suggestions everyone can utilize, instead of writing a bunch of crappy commentary on why it WON"T work.

VOS Racing could've have kept the money and product for ourselves, but we decided to share it with all of the other racers.

Now give us some love back.

Or I'll punch you.

I'll have them for you, all special-like, Hernandocito.

Look guys, this was just an idea of mine that I pursued and it bore fruit. I am not dedicated to anarchy (as I usually am) in this competition. If someone want to propose guidelines to make it easier and more appealing to promoters, I'm definitely hip to that.

In the Tour de France the media decide the Most Aggressive Rider. That won't work.

At the Golden State Crit (?), they had the course marshals radio in their choices after each race.

At Albany, it was left up to the decision of the Race Announcer(s).

In any case, I've said that I will assume the responsibility of delegating the duty if the promoter doesn't want to deal, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Remember, THIS IS FOR FUN!!! I don't think we necessarily need to make a whole set of guidelines and rules. (This is a lawyer talking). But if you are insistent that there be rules, by all means propose some. But make it a comprehensive set, not little trickles.

Z-Man

jraphael@co.napa.ca.us

Jesster

"uninhibited" is a theme of Cycles Gladiator wine. A quick perusal of their site learned me that, on the quick-like.

and, it's the first time i've looked at their site ... and, I will now buy the wine while perusing the wine aisles of my local market because the company has put some sponsorship into cycling.

that's how it works.

brand awareness, brand loyalty - it's what cycling advertising gives you.

Thanks Jess for taking on something new and cool.

... and i tend to favor Syrahs from the central coast.

Todd,
That is not what I am saying at all.

But I know as a promoter and an announcer that with everything that is already going on I have zero attention span left to try and invent my own criteria for a new competition.

It's pretty safe to say, if I am in that position, the other promoters are in that position too.

It's not a matter of not wanting something new, it's a matter of being able to actually do it. No guidelines means it's not going to happen.

Ron

Yeah, Lets not do anything new. I think it is more prudent for us to ride in an inhibited state. Tell this new sponsor to go away and that we don't need any of their bohemian/hippie/pagan propaganda!

We'll attack when we're told to attack through those little radios in our ear.

It's a state of Entropy.

i do agree with you ron on lack of criteria for the competion. but one would seemingly want to research what criteria are used for most agresseve rider competions that already exist in professional cycling. truthfully, i don't know what they are, nor do i care. i am just confused as to why the book is being rewritten. in this case, 2 books are being rewritten: one titled 'name of said competition' and another titled 'criteria of said competition'. what does 'uninhibited' really mean in this situation? let's say you win. you will stand atop the podium, hoisting trophy, declaring, 'i am uninhibited!' ????

and the answer is yes, i apparently do suffer from acronym condition you describe :D

Mack,
Do you suffer from NRDT?
No Result Detail Thinking.

Who cares what they call it? The name isn't the program, it's just a name.

The main thing that needs to be fixed is the structure of the program. You can't possibly have a successful program without a well defined structure and guidelines for participants (race promoters) to follow. Otherwise everyone will just create their own criteria and you have no cohesive method for arriving at the results in which to pick a real winner.

Ron

here's more...

a company brand like 'cycles GLADIATOR' seems to suggest a 'most COMBATITIVE' rider award. a term also typically used in cycling. also a term used in the description of said 'uninhibited' rider award. am i missing something? curious mind...

It's not going to work if you put it up to the promoter to come up with the criteria.
There is already enough going on in putting on the race, adding another thing that the promoter has to invent a method for is going to create two problems:

1. Most will pass due to lack of structure and additional work.
2. Those races that do participate will lack consistency in the method for determining a winner. That makes the whole competition a farce.

You need to create guidelines, and they need to be reasonable and trackable.
George's idea from the track is a very good start and is pretty trackable as the race goes on.

i am failing to understand why we don't just call this the 'most agressive rider' competition. is the term 'uninhibited' part of cycles gladiator marketing? if so, that reason would confuse me as well. just my opinion of course.

mack

The Uninhibited Racer competition website is UP.
http://www.cyclesgladiator.com/cycles/page/uninhibited_award.jsp

We'll post the participating races with links to their websites, names of the winners, photos of the action, and perhaps track the leaders of the season prize.

Promoters - Let me know if you want your race to be included.

Cheers!

The criteria and method of judging is up to the promoters of the individual races, unless they ask for our assistance. We will simply bring the awards and collect the list of winners.

And by the way - It goes without saying, doesn't it, that "aggressive" means in a positive, competitive, exciting way. We want to reward people for making the racing more exciting.

As for the juniors, sorry George. That's just not how I pitched the idea to C.G. and Casey. This one is for the adults.

Meanwhile, Jacob "The Mad Slav" Spivak and Mikey Hernanana Dando are lickin' their canines for that sweet Pinot....

By aggresssive riders, I assume you mean a person who attacks or chases alot. Why not have a race that rewards that type of rider by using the point-a-lap format? (Track riders already do this race.) The leader of each lap gets a point. The one with the most points at the end wins, with the finishing position in the final lap being the tiebreakers. The sit in and sprint types do not win this race, the aggressive ones do. One of the shorter, flatter crits would be ideal for this type of race. Any takers?

So, I get that racers under the age of 21 can't win the wine, but if they are allowed to compete in their categories, why not also have a prize of something like grapejuice for the most agressive juniors? I don't think the prize would mean anything, but it deffinatly would be entertaining. Also, I think that many juniors races have more agressive riders and are more interesting than say, a 35+ 4/5 race.